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azda

So, Brexit....What's happening?

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1 hour ago, 1949threepence said:

This is a guy who went on a motorbike holiday through the then communist East Germany and Czechoslovakia in 1974, with Dianne Abbott. So I'm not personally convinced it is wide of the mark. 

Hey, anyone can change in more than 40 years! 

1 hour ago, 1949threepence said:

Corbyn is in almost as bigger jam as May. He's vacillating on calling a commons vote of no confidence in the government, because he will probably lose it, and if he does, he's then left only with option B, which is a second referendum. He doesn't want that because it means he will have to give an official Labour party policy on leaving the EU which he knows will upset many of his supporters, who, unless they're incredibly thick (a distinct possibility if you actually hear them babbling on), should already know his feelings on the EU. 

Yes, this is the major problem with Labour - they have a leader who at heart is  a Brexiter, while his party largely ain't. And whatever they do, short of a People's Vote on any deal (did you see the cheers for that on Question Time, which normally has a hand-picked pro-Brexit audience?), there is very little they can do, and no time left to do it.

1 hour ago, 1949threepence said:

We do need to get this issue resolved urgently though. Currently, parliament in general (both sides) are so busy arguing that they are seriously neglecting their responsibility to the country and the population. Nero fiddles while Rome burns.  

However, as you said above, the circle really cannot be squared.

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15 minutes ago, Peckris 2 said:

Hey, anyone can change in more than 40 years! 

Yes, this is the major problem with Labour - they have a leader who at heart is  a Brexiter, while his party largely ain't. And whatever they do, short of a People's Vote on any deal (did you see the cheers for that on Question Time, which normally has a hand-picked pro-Brexit audience?), there is very little they can do, and no time left to do it.

However, as you said above, the circle really cannot be squared.

I never watch it, as I usually end up wanting to chuck something at the screen, or shouting at it.

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Here's the outcome i think. A second referendum or people's vote as they like to refer to it. 

 Tick box

1) We remain in the EU. 

2) We accept Mays terrible deal and remain in the EU. 

No option to leave! 

Someone said to me the other day the EU is like Hotel California. I said what do you mean?? , he said you can check out any time you like but you can never leave 🤔

 

 

Edited by Ukstu

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11 hours ago, Ukstu said:

Here's the outcome i think. A second referendum or people's vote as they like to refer to it. 

 Tick box

1) We remain in the EU. 

2) We accept Mays terrible deal and remain in the EU. 

No option to leave! 

Someone said to me the other day the EU is like Hotel California. I said what do you mean?? , he said you can check out any time you like but you can never leave 🤔

 

 

Check out anytime you like but you just can't kill the beast,  how i think it went

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8 hours ago, azda said:

Check out anytime you like but you just can't kill the beast,  how i think it went

It’s  “Stab it with their steely knives, but they just can’t kill the beast”.........the “check out any time....’ quote above is correct,  and very appropriate in that the EU will do everything it can to make leaving difficult, understandable self preservation but change will be driven from within over time  due to both external and internal factors. Quite frankly we are better off in the long term ploughing our own furrow. I am amazed how the predominant political arguments seem to centre on wealth, income , future affluence or otherwise when the issues of democracy and self determination are so much more important. We are so lucky to be able to argue our case in a peaceful fashion, one has only to look around the globe where populations have lost tens or hundreds of thousands of lives often unsuccessfully fighting for basic democracy and freedom from tyranny and external control. They never seem to so willing to die for the pound in their pocket.

Jerry

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12 hours ago, jelida said:

It’s  “Stab it with their steely knives, but they just can’t kill the beast”.........the “check out any time....’ quote above is correct,  and very appropriate in that the EU will do everything it can to make leaving difficult, understandable self preservation but change will be driven from within over time  due to both external and internal factors. Quite frankly we are better off in the long term ploughing our own furrow. I am amazed how the predominant political arguments seem to centre on wealth, income , future affluence or otherwise when the issues of democracy and self determination are so much more important. We are so lucky to be able to argue our case in a peaceful fashion, one has only to look around the globe where populations have lost tens or hundreds of thousands of lives often unsuccessfully fighting for basic democracy and freedom from tyranny and external control. They never seem to so willing to die for the pound in their pocket.

Jerry

Going to see them in May next year, but by far and away the Rolling Stones have been the best i've seen so far, Eagles next and then Pink in June
 






 



 




 






 






 


 
Edited by azda
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Gordon Bennett - no wonder so few read the Guardian, and they are reduced to holding out the begging bowl for reader donations. Just been watching Adam Boulton for Sky News, interviewing two individuals, one of whom was a columnist for the Guardian. When asked about Tony Blair's opinion on a second referendum and Theresa May's view about it, she said that it would have been better if he had come out in favour of a no deal exit, as he's destroying the Labour Project (whatever the hell that is) by agreeing with them, given his toxic association with the "illegal" invasion of Iraq.

What utter tripe. Sometimes I literally am aghast at the complete illogical, unthought out garbage emerging as so called arguments.  

Edited by 1949threepence

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I've given up with the MSM on this debate. It's not impartial, I'd even go so far as to suggest some of it's propaganda. Did anybody else notice the lack of airtime on the French protests by the BBC? I found myself watching it on RT which is sad that we have to look at a foreign country's news to keep up-to-date with current affairs. 

Or what about this UN global compact for migration that we've just signed. Nothing at all from the BBC on this informing us of what it is and what it entails for the UK. They seem to be following the Mushroom policy , keep us in the dark and feed us shit. 

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On 16 December 2018 at 1:50 AM, Ukstu said:

Here's the outcome i think. A second referendum or people's vote as they like to refer to it. 

 Tick box

1) We remain in the EU. 

2) We accept Mays terrible deal and remain in the EU. 

No option to leave! 

Someone said to me the other day the EU is like Hotel California. I said what do you mean?? , he said you can check out any time you like but you can never leave

The triple choice is  how I've always seen it presented:

1. Accept May's deal, and leave the EU 

2. Reject May's deal, and leave the EU with no deal

3. Reject May's deal, and Remain in the EU

That's two options to leave and one to stay.

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1 hour ago, Peckris 2 said:

The triple choice is  how I've always seen it presented:

1. Accept May's deal, and leave the EU 

2. Reject May's deal, and leave the EU with no deal

3. Reject May's deal, and Remain in the EU

That's two options to leave and one to stay.

If we are to observe scrupulous fairness, those are the three alternatives which should be presented to the electorate.

Incidentally, whatever May says, and however loud the howls of indignation from certain quarters, it's now obvious that the smart money is on a 2nd referendum. As far as the term "People's vote", I like what Alan Johnson said on This Week: "who was voting last time then, androids?" 

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22 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

If we are to observe scrupulous fairness, those are the three alternatives which should be presented to the electorate.

Incidentally, whatever May says, and however loud the howls of indignation from certain quarters, it's now obvious that the smart money is on a 2nd referendum. As far as the term "People's vote", I like what Alan Johnson said on This Week: "who was voting last time then, androids?" 

I think it was strategically coined to avoid the term "second referendum", which is actually what it would be. However, for those who cry "foul" or "undemocratic" you could quite realistically say the first was a simple binary choice, "Leave" or "Remain"? There was no explanation of what this would actually involve, i.e. customs union, WTO rules, Irish borders, effect on businesses, and - today - the news that security forces were being put on alert to deal with the effect of a 'No deal'.

Quite early on it was decided that Parliament must have the final say on any future relationship with the EU; now that we know that Parliament will reject May's deal, leaving a choice between No Deal or No Brexit, it makes sense for the people who voted in the first, to have a say on how things should go from here. 

Personally I blame the 1975 referendum, as it established it as an acceptable procedure to decide on Europe (but nothing else, unless you're Scottish).

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Well, Jezza's really shot himself in the nether regions today. Not so much with what he said in the heat of the moment, but lying about it afterwards. I'm no lipreader but he clearly mouthed "woman" not "people".     

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26 minutes ago, 1949threepence said:

Well, Jezza's really shot himself in the nether regions today. Not so much with what he said in the heat of the moment, but lying about it afterwards. I'm no lipreader but he clearly mouthed "woman" not "people".     

I thought he shot himself in the nethers by - as usual - sticking to his script of prepared stuff instead of scoring into the open goals  left by May. I don't know whether he considers it beneath his dignity (she has none left) or whether he's just clueless at PMQs repartee. Emily Thornberry is 1000% better at it than he is.

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1 hour ago, Peckris 2 said:

I thought he shot himself in the nethers by - as usual - sticking to his script of prepared stuff instead of scoring into the open goals  left by May. I don't know whether he considers it beneath his dignity (she has none left) or whether he's just clueless at PMQs repartee. Emily Thornberry is 1000% better at it than he is.

What price two leadership contests in the next year or two?

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10 hours ago, Rob said:

What price two leadership contests in the next year or two?

What odds are you offering?

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9 hours ago, terrysoldpennies said:

We should look up to our politicians,  Pillars of society <_<   yeah Right.

Only if we need to understand how to dodge questions and not admit anything.

A certain "speedy" MP missed that part of politician school though didn't she....

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On 12/20/2018 at 12:59 PM, terrysoldpennies said:

We should look up to our politicians,  Pillars of society <_<   yeah Right.

1884677638_simpsons-Copy.thumb.jpg.8d7d931641c32dc4620768e5a06fffde.jpg

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It's been very quiet for a couple or so weeks, but it's all set to kick off again on Monday - just to break you in gently :ph34r:

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What a mess.

Where do we go from here? 

 

 

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1 hour ago, 1949threepence said:

What a mess.

Where do we go from here? 

I just can't see how Parliament can get a majority view in anything except a second referendum. 

My prediction would be:

1) Endless debates 

2) No consensus 

3) Article 50 Delayed

4) Second Referendum 

5) Remain wins this time

6) Decades of bitter arguments with Leave saying that they have been robbed. Frequent calls of a third referendum.

7) God help us!

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UK more than Europe, Ireland Scotland England all independent but United in UK and part of EU that can trade globally by its own and with EU regulation policy etc it needed three Ireland Scotland and England to be one just a thought in reality how UK will be one of the major leaders that can say no no yes yes to EU at least the center core of coat of arms of UK other commonwealth nation will follow?.  EU and commonwealth countries through UK in trade etc. 

Edited by josie
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17 minutes ago, Sword said:

I just can't see how Parliament can get a majority view in anything except a second referendum. 

My prediction would be:

1) Endless debates 

2) No consensus 

3) Article 50 Delayed

4) Second Referendum 

5) Remain wins this time

6) Decades of bitter arguments with Leave saying that they have been robbed. Frequent calls of a third referendum.

7) God help us!

No 7 - just so !!!

There has to be a 2nd referendum, with three options, a) remain, b) go with Mrs May's deal, c) leave on WTO terms.

Slenderest majority of the three wins.  

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12 minutes ago, josie said:

UK more than Europe, Ireland Scotland England all independent but United in UK and part of EU that can trade globally by its own and with EU regulation policy etc it needed three Ireland Scotland and England to be one just a thought in reality how UK will be one of the major leaders that can say no no yes yes to EU at least the center core of coat of arms of UK other commonwealth nation will follow?.  EU and commonwealth countries through UK in trade etc. 

The union should be solid, but isn't. Scotland wants a different outcome to England.....and the Northern Irish question - complex beyond belief.  

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