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So, Brexit....What's happening?

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That is the point, these Governments didn't like the result so they went back out with reworded options rather than respect the results. If the populous had voted leave again there would have probably been more referendums until they got the result they wanted, 

Kier Starmer on BBC this morning has said there would be only two options, either the 'bad Deal' or remain, already indications the referendum will be weighted towards remain. That referendum has been done and dusted, it should be respected whichever way you voted. The question should be Deal or No Deal. Calling it a 'Peoples Vote' only disguises the fact it will be a referendum rerun.

Labours own 'Brexit' version is to stay in the custom union, stay in the single market and have a place on the top table for decision making..basically that is remain. it would mean accepting EU laws and freedom of movement, the two main reasons people voted to leave.

MPs are pushing for extension to negotiations after 29th March, first it was a year or two, now it is only up until May. which seems conveniently aligned with the EU parliaments members election.

The next General/Council elections will be interesting.

 

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10 hours ago, Peckris 2 said:

Quite so. One thing hard Brexiters just will not accept is that there are very many reasons people voted the way they did in 2016, on both sides. Who knows what the sentiments are now, but if there is to be a second referendum (based on what we now know rather than the vague information and promises made 3 years ago) then both sides must accept the outcome, whatever it is.

You say "unfortunately" but in the case of Ireland and Denmark, the voters overturned the result of the previous referendum so it wasn't their government who decided the outcome. The case of Greece is different - the government there ignored the result of the referendum and settled a deal with the EU. You'd have thought that Greek government would have been thrown out at the next election but amazingly they were re-elected.

I think the FIRST referendum did untold harm to the political system already, but as we may be seeing seismic changes in the traditional 2-party FPTP system, that may not prove to be a bad thing in the long run. A single party exerting a stranglehold for 5, 10, 15 years is not really a good system for the modern era.

A democracy is government by the people by the people etc. something that has been forgotten about in this debate. A second referendum will be a disaster as it shows the government has no intention of complying with the first referendum and most people will lose any confidence they ever had in their leaders. My guess is a second referendum will produce a similar result firstly they are fed up with  being ignored by the government and its incompetence showen in negotiating the terms for Brexit  , the BBC, B of E,  and various vested interests,  and secondly completely p###ed off with being pushed around by the EU with the compliance of the government.

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14 hours ago, Chingford said:

That is the point, these Governments didn't like the result so they went back out with reworded options rather than respect the results. If the populous had voted leave again there would have probably been more referendums until they got the result they wanted, 

I'm not sure I agree with that. If the second result had been the same as the original (with only % differing) that would have been that. As it will be this time, if one  is held. There simply couldn't be a third, but the second (if there is one) must be completely above board, with any lies called out, and outside influences rendered either illegal or promising to render the result null and void. There was just so much questionable about the 2016 referendum.

Kier Starmer on BBC this morning has said there would be only two options, either the 'bad Deal' or remain, already indications the referendum will be weighted towards remain. That referendum has been done and dusted, it should be respected whichever way you voted. The question should be Deal or No Deal. Calling it a 'Peoples Vote' only disguises the fact it will be a referendum rerun.

Should be three, close to what the government has promised with respect to Parliamentary votes : 1. The Deal 2. Do we rule out No Deal or not? 3. Delay Brexit for a limited period.

Labours own 'Brexit' version is to stay in the custom union, stay in the single market and have a place on the top table for decision making..basically that is remain. it would mean accepting EU laws and freedom of movement, the two main reasons people voted to leave.

EU Laws have by and large been benevolent, affecting food safety, medicines, workers rights, clean beaches, and so on. As for freedom of movement, it would be very naive to believe that will end. Wherever workers come from - Poland, India, China, etc - our NHS, industry, and agriculture depends on immigrants. At least with EU immigrants they can't claim benefits for a number of years, unlike Commonwealth immigrants. 

Labour wants "A" customs union (which May's Deal half delivers already) and "a close relationship with the Single Market". That sounds more like Norway than actually Remaining. We would have no influence on EU decisions, which we've had for over 30 years.

 

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If things weren't so serious it would probably be funny.

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11 hours ago, Michael-Roo said:

If things weren't so serious it would probably be funny.

According to one analyst yesterday, there are quite a lot of Tory MPs who are not in the ERG who will vote for May's deal, but if it falls will vote against rejecting No Deal. That's like turkeys voting for Christmas but against Thanksgiving. Sense? None that I can see!

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5 hours ago, Peckris 2 said:

According to one analyst yesterday, there are quite a lot of Tory MPs who are not in the ERG who will vote for May's deal, but if it falls will vote against rejecting No Deal. That's like turkeys voting for Christmas but against Thanksgiving. Sense? None that I can see!

I am absolutely fed up to the teeth with the whole business. Government and parliament in general have badly let down the country over this one. They're a bloody shambles and a disgrace. The lot of them.    

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They're a bloody shambles and a disgrace. The lot of them.    

It sounds like you are talking about our Congress Mike! :rolleyes:
 
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On 3/6/2019 at 11:43 PM, Michael-Roo said:

If things weren't so serious it would probably be funny.

The situation is too farcical to even laugh at. 

7 hours ago, RLC35 said:

They're a bloody shambles and a disgrace. The lot of them.    

It sounds like you are talking about our Congress Mike! :rolleyes:
 

Things bad both sides of the pond, Bob.  

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Be afraid Very afraid. Unless TM wants to play political suicide a no deal Brexit will happen in 18 days depending on which side of the globe you live. . Something not understood by most people  in the UK leaving the EU without a deal  is set in concrete. Only a vote by parliament  can force the government to ask for an extension and who knows what conditions would be imposed by the EU for this to happen. As TM said Brexit means Brexit pity her words do not live up to her rhetoric. 

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On 7 March 2019 at 4:55 PM, 1949threepence said:

I am absolutely fed up to the teeth with the whole business. Government and parliament in general have badly let down the country over this one. They're a bloody shambles and a disgrace. The lot of them.    

and Steve Bannon, Vladimir Putin, Cambridge Analytica, Facebook, Arron Banks, and all the rest of them.

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26 minutes ago, Peckris 2 said:

and Steve Bannon, Vladimir Putin, Cambridge Analytica, Facebook, Arron Banks, and all the rest of them.

Well at least you've got faith. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Peckris 2 said:

and Steve Bannon, Vladimir Putin, Cambridge Analytica, Facebook, Arron Banks, and all the rest of them.

Irrelevant. The British people voted to leave the EU not Steve Bannon etc. however much that seems to offend you that is a fact and that's all there is to it.  Also it does not alter the fact that the UK is heading for a no deal Brexit unless the EU grants an extension under who knows conditions before the 29 March 2019.

Edited by ozjohn
More info

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12 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

Well at least you've got faith. 

Lycia Faith? I wish...

faith-lycia-image.jpg.260abdfd93bcb005cf2310856324d952.jpg

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Posted (edited)
On 3/9/2019 at 9:47 AM, ozjohn said:

Irrelevant. The British people voted to leave the EU not Steve Bannon etc. however much that seems to offend you that is a fact and that's all there is to it.  Also it does not alter the fact that the UK is heading for a no deal Brexit unless the EU grants an extension under who knows conditions before the 29 March 2019.

Well! well! it was only a matter of time..https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/03/10/eu-prepares-demand-multi-billion-pound-increase-divorce-payment/

The EU thinks it has you over a barrel which it probably has unless your feeble pollies suddenly get an attack of intestinal fortitude. and stand up to these bas###ds. As far as I can see the only way the UK can act under threats such as this is the no deal option. How could you live with yourselves giving in to blackmail? 

Edited by ozjohn

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25 minutes ago, ozjohn said:

The EU thinks it has you over a barrel which it probably has unless your feeble pollies suddenly get an attack of intestinal fortitude.

Highly unlikely.  The sooner we get rid of the sorry shower currently inhabiting the Houses of Parliament the better.

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Sounds like there might be a meaningful breakthrough regarding the backstop. Nearest thing to an actual legal re-write that we could get.

Maybe, just maybe, assuming not too many pig headed arrogant brexiters in parliament, this deal might just get through. 

Fingers crossed.

 

 

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May's face was like thunder though.

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3 hours ago, Peckris 2 said:

Rudd. I was stupid enough to vote for him. Along with Gillard one of the worst PMs we have ever had both of them had no commitment to their cause it was all about them. Australia hasn't had a decent Labor PM  since the Hawke /Keating  era. Last I heard of Rudd self styled foreign affairs expert was he was sulking in New York because the government refused to nominate him as our UN ambassador.

I wouldn't take anything in the Guardian seriously. their badly dressed journalists (Vinnies charity shop seems to be their clothing store of choice) infest the current affairs programs of the ABC spreading their left wing views without challenge as they all sing from the same song sheet as well as spreading biased journalism in their on line paper  

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17 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

May's face was like thunder though.

Like this...

Theresa-May-20-June-2018-800x450.jpg.cce68794ca3ceb68c00ea5ad8a8e2f6f.jpg

or this?

gettyimages-970609754.jpg.541739bd3d37ea14373caa20382e47a0.jpg

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42 minutes ago, Peckris 2 said:

Like this...

Theresa-May-20-June-2018-800x450.jpg.cce68794ca3ceb68c00ea5ad8a8e2f6f.jpg

or this?

gettyimages-970609754.jpg.541739bd3d37ea14373caa20382e47a0.jpg

Worse, to be honest. She looked deathly pale and had a really set angry look. Watch the footage if you get a chance.

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I wish I could laugh. The entire situation is bloody tragic.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, 1949threepence said:

 

6 minutes ago, 1949threepence said:

 

 

6 minutes ago, 1949threepence said:

I wish I could laugh. The entire situation is bloody tragic.

It's the only way I can prevent myself screaming out loud.

Edited by Peckris 2
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