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azda

So, Brexit....What's happening?

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39 minutes ago, Peckris 2 said:

 

Manufacturing was dealt a heavy blow long before MT came to power whereby a failure to invest coincided with a large expansion of third world industrial output on the back of cheap labour costs and the added bonus of starting with up to date facilities. Globalisation became an issue from the 70s, whereby goods produced with a fraction of the labour costs here were able to undercut indigenous manufacturers. All political parties are guilty of failure to have a coherent policy addressing the issues. We further shot ourselves in the foot with the terrible industrial relations in the 70s and early 80s. Thatcher came to power on the back of a workforce relation situation perceived as verging on anarchy. Whilst it may have only been a relatively small percentage of the workforce involved, it inconvenienced most people. The striking workforce put MT into power.

The definition of state aid is far reaching and at the mercy of the lawyers. It is impossible to imagine the state setting up any enterprise that wouldn't have some competitive element subsidised. Any subsidies given for whatever reason will free up cashflow for use elsewhere - i.e subsidised by the back door. Infrastructure is state funded at the expense of direct industrial investment, because you can't build a bridge for example with state money and then export it. It is safe and uncontentious. Think of what the projected cost of HS2 could buy in terms of manufacturing capacity.

The motor industry is under pressure from all sides, of which Brexit is but one reason. Global warming has struck a chord in many countries, with diesel sales way down. Ultimately it is consumers not buying so many cars for a range of reasons, both here and abroad such as China. Germans arent' buying so many BMW, Mercedes and Audi cars either, and they will have virtually no UK input. Different reasons, different locations, same outcome.

We have a huge trade deficit with the EU, or more specifically the Eurozone. I cannot see any way to address the lack of competitiveness with German output, which is the main source of the deficit, because the undervalued Euro in terms of the German economy effectively subsidisies their industrial output, as has been discussed several times previously. Of course it isn't state aid because the Euro is a currency basket, but it might as well be. The EU made the Eurozone, nobody else did. Having to adhere to identical rules ties our hands, but leaving would allow us to tweak them a little to best suit us. However, the biggest opportunity to address the imbalance still lies in the hands of the consumer.

Both sides do indeed need each other, but only today Spain rattled its cage by insisting Gibraltar is a British colony and documented as such. France wants to fish our waters as do the Spanish. Every other country will (rightly) push to get whatever it can from future negotiations. The position we would be in if May's agreement was accepted would result in the EU giving everyone what they wanted at our expense in return for us to have whatever access they would allow. TM raised the white flag by accepting such a weak position. Yes, we opted to leave, but she has given us no hand to play in the future. BTW, I don't have a problem us paying for contractually agreed contributions as long as we get a rebate for our not benefiting in the future, and the EU continuing to honour UK payment contracts already placed.

Like everyone else, I don't know what the immediate future holds. I really cannot see the agreement giving us any leverage whatsoever, and at great cost to boot. There is absolutely no point in being tied to the EU with them setting all the rules and us paying for the privilege. It's a halfway house that suits nobody. At least with full membership you have a say for your money, though I suspect that option will expire after the 29th March even if the date is put back with current terms no longer applicable. Reapply and we might well have to join the Euro. Anyone? The situation is farcical, we have to bite the bullet and leave properly, and immediately find a bunch of politicians capable of making it work. TM has to step down on exit, so that someone can do a proper job.

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13 hours ago, Rob said:

Thatcher came to power on the back of a workforce relation situation perceived as verging on anarchy. Whilst it may have only been a relatively small percentage of the workforce involved, it inconvenienced most people. The striking workforce put MT into power.

Agreed, though lamentable management (e.g. at BL) also played a part.

The motor industry is under pressure from all sides, of which Brexit is but one reason. Global warming has struck a chord in many countries, with diesel sales way down. Ultimately it is consumers not buying so many cars for a range of reasons, both here and abroad such as China. Germans arent' buying so many BMW, Mercedes and Audi cars either, and they will have virtually no UK input. Different reasons, different locations, same outcome.

The perfected electric car can't come soon enough.

We have a huge trade deficit with the EU, or more specifically the Eurozone.

Maybe, but being in the EU gives us access to trade deals with a hell of a lot of other countries too, and our overall deficit - as I mentioned before - is a tiny % of GDP. That's what matters, not how well the Germans are doing (not so well recently..)

However, the biggest opportunity to address the imbalance still lies in the hands of the consumer.

Yes - but how do you propose to educate them?

Both sides do indeed need each other, but only today Spain rattled its cage by insisting Gibraltar is a British colony and documented as such.

Gibraltar will always be an issue, in or out of the EU, just as the Falklands are with Argentina.

France wants to fish our waters as do the Spanish.

The EU takes more of the fish that WE harvest than our own population does because - irony upon ironies - we are not a great fish-eating nation compared to others. We favour cod which is arguably the blandest fish out there (and don't get me started on the much vaunted and utterly tasteless 'chicken breast'!). So 2/3 of what we catch is exported to the EU, and that is enabled by the customs union, by which fast-degrading fresh produce like fish can be got to the Continent the same day it's caught.

 BTW, I don't have a problem us paying for contractually agreed contributions as long as we get a rebate for our not benefiting in the future, and the EU continuing to honour UK payment contracts already placed.

I believe that's the case?

 

13 hours ago, Rob said:

Like everyone else, I don't know what the immediate future holds. I really cannot see the agreement giving us any leverage whatsoever, and at great cost to boot. There is absolutely no point in being tied to the EU with them setting all the rules and us paying for the privilege. It's a halfway house that suits nobody. At least with full membership you have a say for your money, though I suspect that option will expire after the 29th March even if the date is put back with current terms no longer applicable. Reapply and we might well have to join the Euro. Anyone? The situation is farcical, we have to bite the bullet and leave properly, and immediately find a bunch of politicians capable of making it work. TM has to step down on exit, so that someone can do a proper job.

Can't argue with that analysis - and it's the best case for staying In and not Leaving. It appears to be too late for that though.

 

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Brexit,this article have other  idea or ways on the ongoing Brexit process,,.        His name is Scott Packer other individual who thought of this or near to it is Farage (for pun the  autocorrect of Farage is ?.).  While Sinn Fien is looking for unification., after Trump made some announcement about exiting avarns treaty with Russia,he did left Europe by its own or Europe should build its army or incase of war ?. Where the army under the coat of arms of UK will gets its fund?.  Or the arm forces of Ireland is independent and can still fight for the crown or UK ?.  https://www-joe-ie.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.joe.ie/amp/news/brexit-petition-ireland-rejoin-united-kingdom-657110?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From %1%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.joe.ie%2Fnews%2Fbrexit-petition-ireland-rejoin-united-kingdom-657110

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https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/02/04/pay-39bn-brexit-bill-put-uks-future-eu-relationship-peril-brussels/

Article from the London Daily Telegraph. Perhaps with threats such as this a second referendum may not be such a bad idea after all. I cannot see such threats enhancing the remain case. As stated before working with the EU if the UK decided to stay would be difficult.

Edited by ozjohn

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History back stop,back door,

Wonder if US can make Irish very easy access to have citizenship or somekind of arrangement between UK Ireland and US can work and live together like what they are doing in EU freedom of Movement and trade?. 

https://www-rte-ie.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.rte.ie/amp/1028023/?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From %1%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rte.ie%2Fnews%2F2019%2F0207%2F1028023-us_brexit_warning%2F

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8 hours ago, josie said:

History back stop,back door,

Wonder if US can make Irish very easy access to have citizenship or somekind of arrangement between UK Ireland and US can work and live together like what they are doing in EU freedom of Movement and trade?. 

https://www-rte-ie.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.rte.ie/amp/1028023/?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From %1%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rte.ie%2Fnews%2F2019%2F0207%2F1028023-us_brexit_warning%2F

 

Josie, That is a excellent idea...free trade and movement between The USA and the United Kingdom. Our countries have been friends since 1814, it seems to me it would be a good fit.

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Perhaps the UK should apply to become one of the states of the union .A much better fit than the EU.

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History back stop,back door,

Wonder if US can make Irish very easy access to have citizenship or somekind of arrangement between UK Ireland and US can work and live together like what they are doing in EU freedom of Movement and trad

https://www-rte-ie.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.rte.ie/amp/1028023/?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From %1%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rte.ie%2Fnews%2F2019%2F0207%2F1028023-us_brexit_warning%2F.      Maybe they can form English speaking countries they can   include Canada and Australia,free trade and free movement,I'm more into citenship process between English speaking countries,each countries varies wonder if US can pass a law that Ireland who's population is around 5 million they can make it automatic  US citizen same as the UK vise versa among English speaking countries for they are more than friends they came from northern dwellers English speaking,Anglo Saxon,Celtic  more or less they are all relatives,in going to US they can tag along Greenland to connect USA to EU?. 

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5 hours ago, RLC35 said:

 

Josie, That is a excellent idea...free trade and movement between The USA and the United Kingdom. Our countries have been friends since 1814, it seems to me it would be a good fit.

Maybe they can form English speaking countries they can   include Canada and Australia,free trade and free movement,I'm more into citenship process between English speaking countries,each countries varies wonder if US can pass a law that Ireland who's population is around 5 million they can make it automatic  US citizen same as the UK vise versa among English speaking countries for they are more than friends they came from northern dwellers English speaking,Anglo Saxon,Celtic  more or less they are all relatives,in going to US they can tag along Greenland to connect USA to EU?. 

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2 hours ago, josie said:

Maybe they can form English speaking countries they can   include Canada and Australia,free trade and free movement,I'm more into citenship process between English speaking countries,each countries varies wonder if US can pass a law that Ireland who's population is around 5 million they can make it automatic  US citizen same as the UK vise versa among English speaking countries for they are more than friends they came from northern dwellers English speaking,Anglo Saxon,Celtic  more or less they are all relatives,in going to US they can tag along Greenland to connect USA to EU?. 

 

Josie, You forgot the phillipines  (sp) unlike the United Kingdom, Canada and Australia, they were once a USA Possession, after the Spanish American War. (1898). :rolleyes:

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4 hours ago, RLC35 said:

 

Josie, You forgot the phillipines  (sp) unlike the United Kingdom, Canada and Australia, they were once a USA Possession, after the Spanish American War. (1898). :rolleyes:

Yes the USA did colonized the PH. also Spain  colonized PH but US cap or restrict the number of Filipinos entering the US, In Spain becoming a citizen coming from colonized countries like the Phillipines requires two years to be a citizen other countries like Ireland takes five to ten years to become  a citizen,why not lessen the number of years require to became a US  citizen coming from first world English speaking countries?.  UK have a right of Abode,Spain have two years,US is the New land, if other former colonies will apply to live in those countries the physical space for migrant is small if the destination is EU,became a UK citizen then go to US if they like and apply for US citizenship other way to go to US or EU,I'm more like thinking VATICAN can make all Christian nation under one citezendhip and freedom of movement and Trade Italy and UK and Russia orthodox can tag along?. Just a thought it did happen in the past during maybe  When Victoria times etc or King Phillip of Spain or Mary and Philip?.

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17 hours ago, RLC35 said:

Josie, That is a excellent idea...free trade and movement between The USA and the United Kingdom. Our countries have been friends since 1814, it seems to me it would be a good fit.

In principle, yes, a very good idea. Two snags, one temporary, one permanent:

1. Trump has declared his aim to stop free trade, and the UK is no exception to his malarkey.

2. Unlike Europe, the USA is not exactly on our doorstep, so the trade in perishables (and therefore the hit to our farmers) - while by no means impossible, would be much more difficult. Add to that the "just in time" aspect of manufacturing - e.g. motors - and you begin to see that even the USA, despite our frienddhip, is only a second best to Europe.

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3 hours ago, Peckris 2 said:

In principle, yes, a very good idea. Two snags, one temporary, one permanent:

1. Trump has declared his aim to stop free trade, and the UK is no exception to his malarkey.

2. Unlike Europe, the USA is not exactly on our doorstep, so the trade in perishables (and therefore the hit to our farmers) - while by no means impossible, would be much more difficult. Add to that the "just in time" aspect of manufacturing - e.g. motors - and you begin to see that even the USA, despite our frienddhip, is only a second best to Europe.

After reading this article ,I'm having some thought either Germany have many researchers institution inline with there work or industries or they are more connected to France that after world war, They  France and Germany became the two main members of EU,and even EU is at the door step it takes several attempts to convince them to make UK a member in the seventies maybe that is intentional to catch up with UK and USA after the war,after WWII the UK start shrinking maybe underneath they like unified EU but not along with English speaking countries even UK does not want to became EU members then they can pass a law or agreement that UK is welcome in a way that what I interpret in the passing of some law line right of Abode that former colonies can apply to go to UK etc,...,because they should or could  make UK a automatic member and gets its coal to UK instead of France.

https://www-indy100-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.indy100.com/article/this-map-shows-the-most-educated-places-in-europe-7313571?amp=&amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQCCAE=#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From %1%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.indy100.com%2Farticle%2Fthis-map-shows-the-most-educated-places-in-europe-7313571

 

In trupms time all is in equivalent of cash just an opinion ,there is a free movement in the US in the past they can make a free movement in exchange for trade or its equivalent ,Trump wants all process is paid like any other application for job,work,residence and citezenship, USA does not want a free ride it is always wants cash or money or and agreement.  And maybe the Federal reserve see Euro as a treat any currency or anything treathens a dollar or Federal reserve is a enemy if the state same goes maybe to the pound?. It is Trade and number one reserve currency or anything that make a dollar still number one?. Just a speculation  I dont mind spending money or USA capping the number of migrant going to the US they been doing that ever since,there is  always a long cue outside US embassies, Trump is Capitalising access to America 

 

The things that UK have is long history of law, government,currency pound,how to make use of it?. Germany have money or EU they can finance there project?. Or Germany can earn money by selling loads of car to EU countries and taking over there industries ,that a payment for a car is like a deposit for a house no needs for land ,construction material etc just a car will do to sustain income for commercial base industries like Germany?.  What will happen if UK buy only state own PPP car UK owned car manufacturing company,nearly happen to DMC?  After Thatcher or decline of Industries in UK it emerges a stock market boom property boom in london,now between Industries and Stock market what is next for UK transport,communication and security hub between US and EU copper and fiber underwater cable,bad weather can hinder communication, connectivity from stocks or information every time or delay is money like the movie sting?   

 

 

Edited by josie

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4 hours ago, Peckris 2 said:

In principle, yes, a very good idea. Two snags, one temporary, one permanent:

1. Trump has declared his aim to stop free trade, and the UK is no exception to his malarkey.

2. Unlike Europe, the USA is not exactly on our doorstep, so the trade in perishables (and therefore the hit to our farmers) - while by no means impossible, would be much more difficult. Add to that the "just in time" aspect of manufacturing - e.g. motors - and you begin to see that even the USA, despite our frienddhip, is only a second best to Europe.

 

We want free trade with China, but they don't reciprocate. As for Great Britain, the USA does have mostly free trade, it is the Brits that add a tariff on good received (VAT), which discourages free trade with the USA. When you send me something from the UK, we do not have to pay a tariff (tax), it is just a net sale. So in effect we receive free trade from Britain, but the British tag their own people for doing business with us.

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1 hour ago, josie said:

After reading this article ,I'm having some thought either Germany have many researchers institution inline with there work or industries or they are more connected to France that after world war, They  France and Germany became the two main members of EU,and even EU is at the door step it takes several attempts to convince them to make UK a member in the seventies maybe that is intentional to catch up with UK and USA after the war,after WWII the UK start shrinking maybe underneath they like unified EU but not along with English speaking countries even UK does not want to became EU members then they can pass a law or agreement that UK is welcome in a way that what I interpret in the passing of some law line right of Abode that former colonies can apply to go to UK etc,...,because they should or could  make UK a automatic member and gets its coal to UK instead of France.

https://www-indy100-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.indy100.com/article/this-map-shows-the-most-educated-places-in-europe-7313571?amp=&amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQCCAE=#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From %1%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.indy100.com%2Farticle%2Fthis-map-shows-the-most-educated-places-in-europe-7313571

 

In trupms time all is in equivalent of cash just an opinion ,there is a free movement in the US in the past they can make a free movement in exchange for trade or its equivalent ,Trump wants all process is paid like any other application for job,work,residence and citezenship, USA does not want a free ride it is always wants cash or money or and agreement.  And maybe the Federal reserve see Euro as a treat any currency or anything treathens a dollar or Federal reserve is a enemy if the state same goes maybe to the pound?. It is Trade and number one reserve currency or anything that make a dollar still number one?. Just a speculation  I dont mind spending money or USA capping the number of migrant going to the US they been doing that ever since,there is  always a long cue outside US embassies, Trump is Capitalising access to America 

 

The things that UK have is long history of law, government,currency pound,how to make use of it?. Germany have money or EU they can finance there project?. Or Germany can earn money by selling loads of car to EU countries and taking over there industries ,that a payment for a car is like a deposit for a house no needs for land ,construction material etc just a car will do to sustain income for commercial base industries like Germany?.  What will happen if UK buy only state own PPP car UK owned car manufacturing company,nearly happen to DMC?  After Thatcher or decline of Industries in UK it emerges a stock market boom property boom in london,now between Industries and Stock market what is next for UK transport,communication and security hub between US and EU copper and fiber underwater cable,bad weather can hinder communication, connectivity from stocks or information every time or delay is money like the movie sting?   

 

 

Wow, look at East of Scotland in that map.......Quite a few Universities in Dundee itself, then St Andrews just across the water.....

Screenshot 2019-02-08 at 18.05.45.png

Edited by azda

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On 8 February 2019 at 4:20 PM, RLC35 said:

We want free trade with China, but they don't reciprocate. As for Great Britain, the USA does have mostly free trade, it is the Brits that add a tariff on good received (VAT), which discourages free trade with the USA. When you send me something from the UK, we do not have to pay a tariff (tax), it is just a net sale. So in effect we receive free trade from Britain, but the British tag their own people for doing business with us.

I wouldn't say that VAT is a tariff, as there are only three rates: no VAT (childrens clothes and food staples for example), normal (20%) for most things, and low (can't remember what this is for). It's the same as your ?Purchase Tax ?Sales Tax. VAT applies to goods on sale here irrespective of where  they come from, so it's even less like a tariff and doesn't hurt exporters to the UK.

Edited by Peckris 2

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7 hours ago, Peckris 2 said:

I wouldn't say that VAT is a tariff, as there are only three rates: no VAT (childrens clothes and food staples for example), normal (20%) for most things, and low (can't remember what this is for). It's the same as your ?Purchase Tax ?Sales Tax. VAT applies to goods on sale here irrespective of where  they come from, so it's even less like a tariff and doesn't hurt exporters to the UK.

I wouldn't say that VAT is a tariff, as there are only three rates

Rates have nothing to do with if it is a tariff or not, and that is what they (UK Govt) want you to think and say..."that's not a tariff"

It's the same as your ?Purchase Tax ?Sales Tax

Your VAT is a lot different than our sales tax. If sales tax was the same, we would have to pay tax on incoming goods from the UK (coins, etc.), and we do not, but you do, because of your  tax (a tariff) on goods coming from another country.

 

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VAT & GST are different from purchase tax as it imposed at each time the service is rendered and passed down the le to the final user. If I purchase a coin from the UK from Australia I have to pay the GST even though the service was not conducted in Australia and probably the VAT even though that is probably retained by the vendor as I believe VAT is not leveed on goods leaving the EU. Therefore in the case of overseas goods coming to Australia the GST acts like tariff . However the article from the ABC demonstrating that border control in Ireland is not as difficult as it is made out to be although seems to be a major sticking point in the Brexit divorce and all we get is a discussion on VAT GST rather than the issue in hand.

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14 minutes ago, ozjohn said:

VAT & GST are different from purchase tax as it imposed at each time the service is rendered and passed down the le to the final user. If I purchase a coin from the UK from Australia I have to pay the GST even though the service was not conducted in Australia and probably the VAT even though that is probably retained by the vendor as I believe VAT is not leveed on goods leaving the EU. Therefore in the case of overseas goods coming to Australia the GST acts like tariff . However the article from the ABC demonstrating that border control in Ireland is not as difficult as it is made out to be although seems to be a major sticking point in the Brexit divorce and all we get is a discussion on VAT GST rather than the issue in hand.

Good point Oz....

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14 hours ago, RLC35 said:

It's the same as your ?Purchase Tax ?Sales Tax

Your VAT is a lot different than our sales tax. If sales tax was the same, we would have to pay tax on incoming goods from the UK (coins, etc.), and we do not, but you do, because of your  tax (a tariff) on goods coming from another country.

That's where you're making a big mistake. A tariff is indeed a tax imposed on goods coming from another country. However, VAT is "merely" a tax, not a tariff, as it is imposed on ALL goods on sale in the UK (except those exempt, like childrens clothing and food staples among others) IRRESPECTIVE OF WHETHER THOSE GOODS WERE IMPORTED OR MADE IN BRITAIN. There is no distinction, nor any disadvantage to any other country over our home grown goods.

However, there can be an import duty (excise tax) which is entirely separate from VAT. If I buy dietary supplements from the States, I have to pay an extra duty on them when they arrive here. Nothing to do with VAT. That's the tax you should be complaining about, and I'd join you.

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 Firstly let's be clear what we are talking about. For goods imported for personal consumption  In Oz a 10% GST is imposed on imported goods coming in to Australia.. The regulations changed in July 2018 after lobbying by retail companies in Australia where goods imported by private persons were GST free up to $1000 in value. You can probably still get some stuff through by mail from private sellers but run the risk of them being intercepted by customs. If it is through Ebay/PayPal the 10% GST is levied and ends up as consolidated revenue from Australian customs formally HM Customs. Amazon stopped selling to Australia from amazon. com and amazon.co.uk but they setup their own company in Australia where they levy the 10% GST on sales . Therefore it's now a tariff as well as an internal tax on goods and services both under the guise of GST. The only concession is when you come back from overseas with the goods in your procession the first $800 is GST free. However this has made duty free in Australia less useful than before  with the exception of booze which attracts excise as well Tobacco is almost banned in Australia where you can only  bring 1 packet of 25 cigarettes with out paying the excise and GST the excise on tobacco in Australia is very high. A packet of  25 cigarettes is about $30. It seems  to be different for the UK where it seems VAT is levied inside the UK while duty is imposed on good coming from overseas countries outside the EU zone i.e. Australia.

All of this has no relevance to this thread which was started with the ABC post on Norway Sweden customs and the overstated customs issues between the Irish Republic and Northern Ireland in the event of a hard Brexit. Personally I think the  Irish Republic's objections to a hard border stem more from the  economic loss they would incur from the loss of sales to the UK rather than the assertion it may stir up the troubles again. Given the Irish Republics policy for a united Ireland I don't think this would worry them too much as they only paid lip service when trying to resolve the troubles in the past. There is also the suspicion  that the EU is supporting the Irish claim to make things as difficult as they can as they know it is unacceptable to the UK to stay tied to the EU customs zone or split off part of the UK to the EU customs zone  after Brexit which would also enhance the Irish Republic's territorial ambitions regarding North Ireland.

Edited by ozjohn
typo

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2 hours ago, Peckris 2 said:

That's where you're making a big mistake. A tariff is indeed a tax imposed on goods coming from another country. However, VAT is "merely" a tax, not a tariff, as it is imposed on ALL goods on sale in the UK (except those exempt, like childrens clothing and food staples among others) IRRESPECTIVE OF WHETHER THOSE GOODS WERE IMPORTED OR MADE IN BRITAIN. There is no distinction, nor any disadvantage to any other country over our home grown goods.

However, there can be an import duty (excise tax) which is entirely separate from VAT. If I buy dietary supplements from the States, I have to pay an extra duty on them when they arrive here. Nothing to do with VAT. That's the tax you should be complaining about, and I'd join you.

That's the tax you should be complaining about, and I'd join you.

I am not complaining about it because I don't have to pay it!  However whatever you call it, VAT / Tariff / Import Duty / Extra Duty / Import Duty / Excise Tax...it is still a tariff(Tax) on you, that I do not have to pay on goods coming from the UK to the USA, but you do have to pay on goods coming from the USA to the UK. I have even had client leave a coin at the UK Post office rather than pay the VAT tax. LOL...

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3 hours ago, RLC35 said:

That's the tax you should be complaining about, and I'd join you.

I am not complaining about it because I don't have to pay it!  However whatever you call it, VAT / Tariff / Import Duty / Extra Duty / Import Duty / Excise Tax...it is still a tariff(Tax) on you, that I do not have to pay on goods coming from the UK to the USA, but you do have to pay on goods coming from the USA to the UK. I have even had client leave a coin at the UK Post office rather than pay the VAT tax. LOL...

Factually incorrect. VAT is not a tariff. It's what all purchasers of goods in this country have to pay, and the only time people think of it separately is when it's not shown as part of the 'price to pay'. Otherwise the price shown on the ticket or website includes VAT  and few people  think about it as a separate component. Your customer was obviously an exception. VAT is just one of the many taxes like income tax, National Insurance, fuel duty, duty on drink and cigarettes, etc. Part of the cost of living.

As I said however, excise duty ("still to pay before you can collect your goods") is a different matter.

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5 hours ago, RLC35 said:

That's the tax you should be complaining about, and I'd join you.

I am not complaining about it because I don't have to pay it!  However whatever you call it, VAT / Tariff / Import Duty / Extra Duty / Import Duty / Excise Tax...it is still a tariff(Tax) on you, that I do not have to pay on goods coming from the UK to the USA, but you do have to pay on goods coming from the USA to the UK. I have even had client leave a coin at the UK Post office rather than pay the VAT tax. LOL...

I think if I'd ordered a coin Bob, I'd want it sufficiently to overcome any annoyance at paying a tariff for it. (or tax, whatever)

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