Strange coin: Carolus IIII 8 Reales 1817?

[Tommy Yang 1]

Hi guys,

I have recently purchased the below Carolus IV 8 Reales coin without looking at its date.

After a closer examination I realised that Carolus IV abdicated in 1808 and the coin says it is minted in 1817??

In my humbled opinion, this coin shows no sign of forgery. Can you guys please let me know if you know anything about it?

If I have posted the coin in the wrong section, I apologise in advance.

 

[Peckris 2 2,043]

Not so much a fake perhaps (the date error is too obvious) but possibly an "evasion", i.e. a coin minted with a deliberate wrong date for purposes of trade in certain regions?

[Rob 2,996]

Not a clue about these, but given the abdication date it doesn't sound right. What mint is it? Weight? Edge?

The portrait doesn't seem to match the 1808 coins exactly, but I haven't checked all the different mints. The eyelid is too long for a start and the front cuirasse strap could be a bit too long. Usually the other 3 are slightly longer.

It's almost certain the Chinese will be making these, so anybody know if this is one?

You might be better off posting on a US forum as there are a lot of collectors of 8 Reales over there due to the Hispanic connection with the US. If it is a copy, it won't be the only one.

Edited October 22, 2018 by Rob

[Tommy Yang 1]

Hi guys, thank you for your help. I have consulted a few experienced dealer in China and they believe it is not a Chinese fake. I am trying to attach the back picture but I can't for some reason...

[Tommy Yang 1]

Here we go.

[Rob 2,996]

over 500kB. If not, leave the thread and come back into it, then the 500kb limit per post will reset.

[Rob 2,996]

The reverse looks all wrong - it seems far too crude. The assayer's initials are wrong. There is no F P at Mexico. The latest my edition of Krause gives a P is 1665. In 1817 the assayers were Jose and Joaquin, so a J seems to be imperative.

Unfortunately I don't have an example of a modern copy and only have a genuine 1794 Lima mint to compare, but the pillars in particular on your coin seem to be lacking in quality. I suppose it is possible it is a contemporary copy made during the Civil War around 1821, but it certainly isn't an official product. That is why I suggested asking across the pond.