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DrLarry

1879 Penny shuttle variety

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924688792_CM180925-154628003(184x300).jpg.eab66b63832ec189445389ef4084f0fe.jpg193697670_DSC_1519(300x169).jpg.ce898fb55fbc726d3d59f528c071bf45.jpg

I could not find the previous discussion on the 79 shuttle type so I thought it best to start again.  I managed to find another recently and this one is much better grade that the previous one .  I know Jerry has another that he purchased at auction 152 item # 2434 and I listed another recently on a thread but on a search I could not find it again. It is clear on this specimen that the large lump of raised metal above the lighthouse is made up of four distinct units the base which takes on the appearance of the lighthouse used in later dates H rev I think it is (not that I am saying this is why it is I just mention it as the shape is similar) a blunt ended cone.  The second layer seems to be similar in shape and form but offset to the left .  A higher lump on the left base and lastly the highest section mid right.  Interestingly it appears that the area below seems to be bordered by a fine raised line leading down to the top of the extant lighthouse. It may be that there is a depression.

well it is an interesting variety (i think so in any case) the other one I have is the exact same outline but is less detailed (worn) 

CM180925-154628003 (184x300).jpg

DSC_1519 (300x169).jpg

Edited by DrLarry

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I have presented the specimens of this penny to M Goulby and he agrees that it should be considered as an interesting example of another "dot type"  I think there may be about 7 examples now.   

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Perhaps you might want to add it to your rare dot "varieties" I certainly think (although I am biased please note) it should be added

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Hi Larry,

 

Thank you for the images of your “deposit” just above the lighthouse on you 1879 pennies.

 

As you say it is amazing that no one has come forward with this ‘anomaly’ before now. It certainly seems to be a constant as you have 6 examples of this variety.

 

I presume that it is on the commoner (M + k) variety. If so it could probably be recorded as BP 1879 Bh – (M + k) – With possible small piece of grit, metal filing, etc. got trapped on the reverse striking die leaving a small indent when it fell out that got transferred on the blank (coin) being struck and subsequent 1879 coins being struck.

 

So far, it appears that about 7 examples are known in various grades from Poor to VF.

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3 hours ago, DrLarry said:

Perhaps you might want to add it to your rare dot "varieties" I certainly think (although I am biased please note) it should be added

I'm not inclined to add it to the "Dot" pennies because virtually all of these have perfectly circular raised dots about which Paul Holland has offered a plausible explanation for their origin and I'd prefer to keep them together as a single "phenomenon".

Possibly another page could be created for coins with extraneous extra metal such as this ? Let me think about it.

Richard

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I'm inclined to agree Richard. I think I have a couple of irregular shaped  'extra metal' pieces myself, will check when I'm back home. 

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I have three of these in varying condition. They are certainly an interesting anomaly, but I have always been rather against labelling them a ‘variety’ as  they clearly represent foreign body die damage rather than any action of man. But they are worthy of note in some sort of sub- category , as the dot pennies are. Maybe an ‘interesting/ collectable die flaws’  category, or similar. Beauty, as ever, is in the eye of the beholder.

Jerry

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5 hours ago, alfnail said:

I'm inclined to agree Richard. I think I have a couple of irregular shaped  'extra metal' pieces myself, will check when I'm back home. 

How about this for 'extra metal'.

466607845_1674-01copy.jpg.d5ba91d6f77147e8bb0236acee3bf297.jpg205577321_1674-02copy.jpg.0255de0b37c4e75fe22bbdfdadda7179.jpg

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On 7/7/2023 at 8:39 PM, jelida said:

I have three of these in varying condition. They are certainly an interesting anomaly, but I have always been rather against labelling them a ‘variety’ as  they clearly represent foreign body die damage rather than any action of man. But they are worthy of note in some sort of sub- category , as the dot pennies are. Maybe an ‘interesting/ collectable die flaws’  category, or similar. Beauty, as ever, is in the eye of the beholder.

Jerry

Oh well there are about 9 or 10 then . I didn't for one moment think it would get past Cerberus. 

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On 7/7/2023 at 9:37 PM, Michael-Roo said:

How about this for 'extra metal'.

466607845_1674-01copy.jpg.d5ba91d6f77147e8bb0236acee3bf297.jpg205577321_1674-02copy.jpg.0255de0b37c4e75fe22bbdfdadda7179.jpg

I think when a die breaks and there is flow into the broken section I would not list the examples of cud I felt that the shuttle was more interesting because it has no attachment to any part of the legend or design .  It stands alone in the field like these "cannonballs" on the 1875 which is not a dot and is quite irregular in shape.  I am intrigued by there being an explanation for the dots that Richard mentions. in the 1879 there is a second "blob" above the shuttle on many examples that is perhaps more of a dot which presumably is also the result of a foreign body damaging the die.  

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Th explanation for the "dots" was contained in an article that I wrote for Coin News last year. I'll try to precis it for the dot penny page on the rare penny site.

 

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Nice big gap there between L and O

1674.jpg

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