Shillings & Florins in circ. after 1971

[PWA 1967 1,836]

5 minutes ago, blakeyboy said:

Only if you were lazy.

Thats not always the case Blake.

My Dad was a miner who was as hard working as most.

Living and coming from a mining town near Manchester i remember things being tough even though i was a kid 🙂

[blakeyboy 1,601]

I know- try the Midlands in the early '70s...

 

I was just being deliberately inflammatory to try to stop bad circumstance being  'blamed' on one person,

and to highlight how such thoughts have no place in a discussion of coinage.....:)

[Peckris 2 2,042]

On 11 October 2018 at 10:58 AM, blakeyboy said:

Only if you were lazy.

Or sick.

Or disabled.

Or a single parent.

Or homeless.

Or an unemployed miner, steelworker, shipyard worker.

Or elderly trying to live on the state pension.

[PWA 1967 1,836]

19 hours ago, blakeyboy said:

I know- try the Midlands in the early '70s...

 

I was just being deliberately inflammatory to try to stop bad circumstance being  'blamed' on one person,

and to highlight how such thoughts have no place in a discussion of coinage.....:)

The miners strike was tough though ☹️

Yes sorry.......Back to coins 🙂

Edited October 15, 2018 by PWA 1967

[blakeyboy 1,601]

6 hours ago, Peckris 2 said:

Or sick.

Or disabled.

Or a single parent.

Or homeless.

Or an unemployed miner, steelworker, shipyard worker.

Or elderly trying to live on the state pension.

Yes, all of the above, but it wasn't the result of the actions of just one person - it never is.

[Peckris 2 2,042]

3 hours ago, blakeyboy said:

Yes, all of the above, but it wasn't the result of the actions of just one person - it never is.

It was however, the result of Thatcherism, and she was the main architect of that.

[Rob 2,996]

I think the left's reaction to the Thatcher years was a whinge in the realisation that the cozy life in the union-run country of the 1970s was disappearing in a puff of smoke. People complain about Thatcher in the 80s, but what about the 70s where a walkout was determined by a show of hands. The example where Derek Robinson shut Longbridge with a clearly small minority favouring a strike - yet the vote was deemed to be passed, that and similar actions set the seeds of Thatcherism because it was clear the country was in danger of being run by the unions.

From my own experience, I was given a warning for working too hard when at the post office after graduation. I was told in no uncertain terms that it took 10 minutes to load this van, 20 for that, 45 for another. And the funereal pace of the mail bag folding area would have embarrassed even the most lethargic, with a rate of 2 per minute, the bags neatly folded with such perfection that it would have put many a laundry to shame. They could have relieved the boredom by doing a bag every 15 seconds, but that was the agreed rate. Only available to permanent staff, the list of people putting their name down for this jolly was lengthy. That was my life in the 70s, and I didn't like it either.

It is the difference in view of work ethics that explains this country's lack of productivity when compared with other developed nations.

Ultimately, nothing happens in isolation.

Edited October 15, 2018 by Rob

[Peckris 2 2,042]

10 hours ago, Rob said:

From my own experience, I was given a warning for working too hard when at the post office after graduation. I was told in no uncertain terms that it took 10 minutes to load this van, 20 for that, 45 for another. And the funereal pace of the mail bag folding area would have embarrassed even the most lethargic, with a rate of 2 per minute, the bags neatly folded with such perfection that it would have put many a laundry to shame. They could have relieved the boredom by doing a bag every 15 seconds, but that was the agreed rate. Only available to permanent staff, the list of people putting their name down for this jolly was lengthy. That was my life in the 70s, and I didn't like it either.

I don't dispute that in the 70s there was a peculiar attitude to work, with dreaded words like 'demarcation' holding sway, and rigid lines that tended often to curb entrepreneurial enthusiasm. However, as you said, "nothing happens in isolation" and those less-than-savoury 70s attitudes to work arose because of the earlier exploitation of workers that was so widespread before WW2. Thatcher was the counter balance to that, but she went too far the other way : her government was deliberately antagonistic - even militant - towards the miners, who like the steelworkers and shipbuilders got virtually no help once their community's jobs had gone. She encouraged people to buy their own council houses (good) but then didn't build more social housing (bad). She was a virtual slave to free market economics courtesy of Keith Joseph, and any liberal tendencies in her government ("The Wets") were ruthlessly purged. She did help get our economy back on a sounder footing (though being a member of the EU also had a lot to do with that), but the price we as a nation paid in societal terms was high. Too high.

[blakeyboy 1,601]

I worked for a while in the ceramics industry for a while in the '70's and did a few piecework jobs one week when lots of people

in the factory were off sick with the 'flu.   I worked at reasonable rate and was amazed at the end of the week how much my wage packet 

had increased. I was then taken to one side by my boss and told not to do that again. There had been a union meeting called about me, apparently,

complaining that I had ruined things for everyone.....

 

Thatcher had two main failings- she believed that everyone above a certain intelligence level had a sense of humour,

and therefore that she did, and went on that terrible Yes Prime minister programme/ special script reading, 

which proved she had no idea about comedy whatsoever. This delusional sense of her talents led to the other failing- staying on for far too long.

 

I wish John Major was running things now- everyone in the EU knew that in him we had quite the best quiet negotiator in Europe.....

Mind you, he was so dull compared to the others that we all had to believe, because of Spitting Image, that he wore his underpants outside his trousers......

[blakeyboy 1,601]

Margaret Thatcher, Lego, and the Principle of Least Action | OUPblog.webloc

[Peckris 2 2,042]

14 minutes ago, blakeyboy said:

Margaret Thatcher, Lego, and the Principle of Least Action | OUPblog.webloc

Oops. That's a download. Now deleted to be on the safe side...

[blakeyboy 1,601]

Err..it's Oxford University Press, and the HTML link changed to a download after I posted for some reason I can't fathom

[1949threepence 3,366]

On 10/16/2018 at 10:20 AM, Peckris 2 said:

I don't dispute that in the 70s there was a peculiar attitude to work, with dreaded words like 'demarcation' holding sway, and rigid lines that tended often to curb entrepreneurial enthusiasm. However, as you said, "nothing happens in isolation" and those less-than-savoury 70s attitudes to work arose because of the earlier exploitation of workers that was so widespread before WW2. Thatcher was the counter balance to that, but she went too far the other way : her government was deliberately antagonistic - even militant - towards the miners, who like the steelworkers and shipbuilders got virtually no help once their community's jobs had gone. She encouraged people to buy their own council houses (good) but then didn't build more social housing (bad). She was a virtual slave to free market economics courtesy of Keith Joseph, and any liberal tendencies in her government ("The Wets") were ruthlessly purged. She did help get our economy back on a sounder footing (though being a member of the EU also had a lot to do with that), but the price we as a nation paid in societal terms was high. Too high.

There were faults on both sides of the divide to be fair. Neither side can take any moral high ground. The unions because of their lousy, truculent attitude, and ultimately Thatcher for being over ruthless and dogmatically obsessed with privatisation in a naturally mixed economy. 

However, where I think Thatcher went badly wrong was in closing all the mines (or the overwhelming majority any rate) in the so called "dash for gas", which exhausted our North Sea supplies for electricity production at what had been coal fired power stations. She should have kept most of them open. Not only would that have saved whole communities, but additionally, investment could have been made into clean coal burning. We would also have still have a good reserve of natural gas and not have to buy any from the Russian Gazprom (how's that for the law of unintended consequences, for Thatcher) nor any need to start fracking.   

 

[blakeyboy 1,601]

Case proven there - even I have to admit that.

 Norway, on the other hand, made that much money that they are now the only country in the world

whose population, and I mean all of them, can turn the lights off, lock the doors, go on holiday for a year, and when they got back,

Noway would still be in the black....

[Nick 325]

2 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

However, where I think Thatcher went badly wrong was in closing all the mines

Not wishing to continue the discussion but it should be remembered that more pits closed under Harold Wilson (1964-1970) than under Margaret Thatcher (1979-1990).

[blakeyboy 1,601]

Wilson- don"t get me started....

[Peckris 2 2,042]

6 hours ago, Nick said:

Not wishing to continue the discussion but it should be remembered that more pits closed under Harold Wilson (1964-1970) than under Margaret Thatcher (1979-1990).

Mines closed steadily from the late 60s onwards as other sources of fuel became available. But only in 1984-1986 were they closed by violent confrontation between the miners and the forces deliberately unleashed by the government of the day.

[ozjohn 552]

 UK and OZ silver coins "rescued" from change in the late 60s early 70s.

On the political side I guess you could use a MT in the Brexit negotiations. To be fair TM had the ground cut from under her after the disastrous election result where the UK's position was compromised right from the start. This was about the worst election outcome for the UK since WC was chucked out in 1945 leaving an unprepared Atlee to face Stalin & Trueman in the post WW2 negotiations at Potsdam.

 

Edited October 18, 2018 by ozjohn
correction

[Peckris 2 2,042]

What's the Elizabeth II florin doing there!

"disastrous election result"? We don't all think that! It's true that had TM won a predicted landslide, she could have pursued a Chequers-style solution to Brexit from the start without worrying too much about the Europhobic rabble in her party (Rees-Mogg, Fox, Gove, Johnson, Cash, etc) and got us a reasonable deal. Now it's anyone's game, anyone's guess.

As for 1945, Atlee's government helped shape what we know as modern Britain rather than the failing Empire mindset of the 1930s. Even Thatcher couldn't (or wouldn't) undo all of that. The British people shouldn't be insulted as 'stupid' for evicting Churchill, who was inspirational in the fight against Hitler, but who proved less than inspirational as a peacetime leader.

[Paddy 1,539]

Can we keep the politics to the non-coin section of the forum. I came here to avoid thinking about it!

[ozjohn 552]

It's an Australian QE2 florin which for your information were made from 50% silver. The old LSD coins were minted in .500 silver up to 1965. As for politics you have your opinion and I have mine and as Paddy says probably better left out of this forum.

[Peckris 2 2,042]

1 minute ago, ozjohn said:

It's an Australian QE2 florin which for your information were made from 50% silver. The old LSD coins were minted in .500 silver up to 1965.

Wow - never knew that! Wonder why?

As for politics you have your opinion and I have mine and as Paddy says probably better left out of this forum.

Good job you're on the other side of the planet. 

 

[ozjohn 552]

If you knew the answer why ask the question ? At least Australian coinage of the 50s & 60s contained 50% silver rather than the Cu Ni coins

issued over there. Also the Australian "silver" coins with the exception of the 50 cent coin still retain the size and weight of the old UK imperial coins.

Anything else you would like to know?

Correct, somebody has to balance  your side of the planet .

[Peckris 2 2,042]

21 hours ago, ozjohn said:

If you knew the answer why ask the question ? At least Australian coinage of the 50s & 60s contained 50% silver rather than the Cu Ni coins

issued over there. Also the Australian "silver" coins with the exception of the 50 cent coin still retain the size and weight of the old UK imperial coins.

I didn't know the answer. That's why I said "never knew that". The clue's in the words...

[ozjohn 552]

Glad to be of  assistance.