Jump to content
British Coin Forum - Predecimal.com

50 Years of RotographicCoinpublications.com A Rotographic Imprint. Price guide reference book publishers since 1959. Lots of books on coins, banknotes and medals. Please visit and like Coin Publications on Facebook for offers and updates.

Coin Publications on Facebook

   Rotographic    

The current range of books. Click the image above to see them on Amazon (printed and Kindle format). More info on coinpublications.com

predecimal.comPredecimal.com. One of the most popular websites on British pre-decimal coins, with hundreds of coins for sale, advice for beginners and interesting information.

Sign in to follow this  
Madness

1797 Penny

Recommended Posts

My next acquisition target is a 1797 penny of EF grade or higher.  I want a genuine 1797 coin, not a late Soho striking or a Taylor restrike.  How do I tell the difference between the original and a later strike/restrike?

Finally, I came across this image of an example graded as FDC.  Is this precisely the same design as used in the genuine 1797 strikings?  Thanks!

k7fuvTE.jpg

bokzovG.jpg

Source

 

Edited by Madness

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Think I've found a good source that might be able to answer my questions in the form of Peck: English Copper, Tin and Bronze Coins in the British Museum, 1558-1963.  Could someone please confirm that this work will be useful and that the 1970 edition is acceptable?  Have found a copy in Australia on eBay.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Peck is generally considered to be the definitive work on the subject and I believe the 1970 edition is the second printing and most recent edition.

A must have reference for your library....

One caveat to remember; there have been many new discoveries since that last printing, so you will have to supplement it with other resources.... However it is the starting point from which all others embark...

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Madness said:

Think I've found a good source that might be able to answer my questions in the form of Peck: English Copper, Tin and Bronze Coins in the British Museum, 1558-1963.  Could someone please confirm that this work will be useful and that the 1970 edition is acceptable?  Have found a copy in Australia on eBay.

It's a great book, and very useful - although as stated above, many new discoveries have been made since the last update, so you have to factor that in. But with that said, it's just about the most comprehensive work on offer, I'd say. A very big heavy book, as might be imagined.

Of course the photographic plates are not of the standard we would expect today, but the written text is superb.

My advice for what it's worth - buy it !!! Don't know what the cost is on e bay Australia, but generally they're not cheap. I got mine for £50 at an auction in 2016 (1964 print)     

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I may be talking through my arse here (it's been known...) but AFAIK there aren't Taylor restrikes of the currency 1797 coins? And yes, your pictures above are of the genuine striking - though that may be a proof if described as FDC (there are Taylor restrikes of proofs but that doesn't look like one).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, Peckris 2 said:

I may be talking through my arse here (it's been known...) but AFAIK there aren't Taylor restrikes of the currency 1797 coins? And yes, your pictures above are of the genuine striking - though that may be a proof if described as FDC (there are Taylor restrikes of proofs but that doesn't look like one).

I remember having read recently that Taylor got hold of dies for both proof and circulation examples and that his marriages of the dies were all over the place.  Then again, I only have a few weeks experience and you have a lifetime!  I can't even remember where I read this!  Will try and track it down.  Could have been the words of some rando in a non-descript forum.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The picture you posted above is of a proof coin and yes the currency is the same although you wont find a currency with so good a strike and fields.

The Taylor ones you can spot quite easily as a completely different design to the reverse and yes there are patterns for 1797.

Plenty to choose from and maybe take your time 😊

img0001.jpg

Edited by PWA 1967
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I must have been dreaming.  I can't find the reference.  

Looking at a few examples today I've noticed a difference in the shape of GIII's forehead, some curving slightly inwards at the top and others being relatively straight at the same place.  

Edited by Madness

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Madness said:

I must have been dreaming.  I can't find the reference.  

What for 😄

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, PWA 1967 said:

What for 😄

Read the post above your first post re die-marriages and proof/circulation dies.  I obviously don't know what I'm talking about 😄

Edited by Madness

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would call it as a Soho proof due to the small curved line coming down from the King's ear. This is indicative of one of the KP types but as I haven't got Peck to hand I can't specify which (it may be the one with P1123 in it).

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, oldcopper said:

I would call it as a Soho proof due to the small curved line coming down from the King's ear. This is indicative of one of the KP types but as I haven't got Peck to hand I can't specify which (it may be the one with P1123 in it).

I wasnt aware of that ,is there any other differences please ?.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's the difference I always spot, as it's really easy. I don't think it's mentioned in Peck though. Peck will list other differences but probably harder to see straightaway.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×