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Madness

Madness' Coin Grading Training Ground

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That's fair enough. I can only talk about my experience but in the past 'bright' has meant dipped or cleaned in some way. I remember when I joined this forums I was advised as such. Michael is a very reputable dealer so I don't envisage you having any issues.

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I agree with Non. "Bright" usually implies dipping or cleaning. Dealers tend to use terms like "lustrous", "brilliant", "retaining some original brilliance", "just beginning to tone" etc otherwise. But I also don't think you will find any issues in this case.

On a separate issue,  I really don't think experienced dealers should use ? in grading. In this case EF?/EF just sugars the pill that the observe is not quite EF. aEF would be more straight forward. 

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5 hours ago, Madness said:

I've just cleared up this issue with Michael.  He said that "bright" does not mean dipped for the coins he sells and that he would mention any evidence of cleaning or dipping when describing the coin.  Given his reputation and demeanor in my dealings with him I believe him entirely.  

Made final payment for a 1787 shilling and sixpence and am looking forward to the arrival of same.

A quote from his email:  

As I always say to every collector “I will always give you a full refund for the coin if you are unhappy for any reason and wish to return it” !

Needless to say I'll be buying from him again as the experience has been far more pleasant than the baptism of fire I got through eBay.

 

It would be difficult to find a dealer that is as knowledgeable and as much a gentleman as he.....

I believe that I said it before, especially as I collect copper and bronze, that if I could only have 1 dealer to work with, I would pick Michael Gouby. ....

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5 hours ago, Madness said:

I've just cleared up this issue with Michael.  He said that "bright" does not mean dipped for the coins he sells and that he would mention any evidence of cleaning or dipping when describing the coin.  Given his reputation and demeanor in my dealings with him I believe him entirely.  

Made final payment for a 1787 shilling and sixpence and am looking forward to the arrival of same.

A quote from his email:  

As I always say to every collector “I will always give you a full refund for the coin if you are unhappy for any reason and wish to return it” !

Needless to say I'll be buying from him again as the experience has been far more pleasant than the baptism of fire I got through eBay.

 

It would be difficult to find a dealer that is as knowledgeable and as much a gentleman as he.....

I believe that I said it before, especially as I collect copper and bronze, that if I could only have 1 dealer to work with, I would pick Michael Gouby. ....

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5 hours ago, Madness said:

I've just cleared up this issue with Michael.  He said that "bright" does not mean dipped for the coins he sells and that he would mention any evidence of cleaning or dipping when describing the coin.  Given his reputation and demeanor in my dealings with him I believe him entirely.  

Made final payment for a 1787 shilling and sixpence and am looking forward to the arrival of same.

A quote from his email:  

As I always say to every collector “I will always give you a full refund for the coin if you are unhappy for any reason and wish to return it” !

Needless to say I'll be buying from him again as the experience has been far more pleasant than the baptism of fire I got through eBay.

 

It would be difficult to find a dealer that is as knowledgeable and as much a gentleman as he.....

I believe that I said it before, especially as I collect copper and bronze, that if I could only have 1 dealer to work with, I would pick Michael Gouby. ....

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5 hours ago, Madness said:

I've just cleared up this issue with Michael.  He said that "bright" does not mean dipped for the coins he sells and that he would mention any evidence of cleaning or dipping when describing the coin.  Given his reputation and demeanor in my dealings with him I believe him entirely.  

Made final payment for a 1787 shilling and sixpence and am looking forward to the arrival of same.

A quote from his email:  

As I always say to every collector “I will always give you a full refund for the coin if you are unhappy for any reason and wish to return it” !

Needless to say I'll be buying from him again as the experience has been far more pleasant than the baptism of fire I got through eBay.

 

It would be difficult to find a dealer that is as knowledgeable and as much a gentleman as he.....

I believe that I said it before, especially as I collect copper and bronze, that if I could only have 1 dealer to work with, I would pick Michael Gouby. ....

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5 hours ago, Madness said:

I've just cleared up this issue with Michael.  He said that "bright" does not mean dipped for the coins he sells and that he would mention any evidence of cleaning or dipping when describing the coin.  Given his reputation and demeanor in my dealings with him I believe him entirely.  

Made final payment for a 1787 shilling and sixpence and am looking forward to the arrival of same.

A quote from his email:  

As I always say to every collector “I will always give you a full refund for the coin if you are unhappy for any reason and wish to return it” !

Needless to say I'll be buying from him again as the experience has been far more pleasant than the baptism of fire I got through eBay.

 

It would be difficult to find a dealer that is as knowledgeable and as much a gentleman as he.....

I believe that I said it before, especially as I collect copper and bronze, that if I could only have 1 dealer to work with, I would pick Michael Gouby. ....

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5 hours ago, Madness said:

I've just cleared up this issue with Michael.  He said that "bright" does not mean dipped for the coins he sells and that he would mention any evidence of cleaning or dipping when describing the coin.  Given his reputation and demeanor in my dealings with him I believe him entirely.  

Made final payment for a 1787 shilling and sixpence and am looking forward to the arrival of same.

A quote from his email:  

As I always say to every collector “I will always give you a full refund for the coin if you are unhappy for any reason and wish to return it” !

Needless to say I'll be buying from him again as the experience has been far more pleasant than the baptism of fire I got through eBay.

 

It would be difficult to find a dealer that is as knowledgeable and as much a gentleman as he.....

I believe that I said it before, especially as I collect copper and bronze, that if I could only have 1 dealer to work with, I would pick Michael Gouby. ....

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5 hours ago, Madness said:

I've just cleared up this issue with Michael.  He said that "bright" does not mean dipped for the coins he sells and that he would mention any evidence of cleaning or dipping when describing the coin.  Given his reputation and demeanor in my dealings with him I believe him entirely.  

Made final payment for a 1787 shilling and sixpence and am looking forward to the arrival of same.

A quote from his email:  

As I always say to every collector “I will always give you a full refund for the coin if you are unhappy for any reason and wish to return it” !

Needless to say I'll be buying from him again as the experience has been far more pleasant than the baptism of fire I got through eBay.

 

It would be difficult to find a dealer that is as knowledgeable and as much a gentleman as he.....

I believe that I said it before, especially as I collect copper and bronze, that if I could only have 1 dealer to work with, I would pick Michael Gouby. ....

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Sorry about the duplicate postings, I was not getting a submitted message, just the same button to submit the message....

If a moderator could remove the duplicate posts, I (as well as everyone else) would appreciate it...

Thank you....

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Never mind. A valiant attempt to reach 1000 posts. :)

 

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16 minutes ago, Rob said:

Never mind. A valiant attempt to reach 1000 posts. :)

 

LOL .....  not even on my mind, I'll get there eventually. .......  maybe before my 15th anniversary here in August 2020.......

Edited by Bronze & Copper Collector

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My guestimate: aEF/EF

zPzmNE5.jpg

 

Gexwjrw.jpg

 

 

Edited by Madness

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Maybe it's just the way it was photographed (flash?) but something bothers me a bit about those pictures.

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3 minutes ago, Peckris 2 said:

Maybe it's just the way it was photographed (flash?) but something bothers me a bit about those pictures.

Can you elaborate?  Is related to the toning?

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Just the modelling I suppose - the design looks more "3D" than those coins actually are (quite flat designs). But it's probably just the photography.

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5 minutes ago, Peckris 2 said:

Just the modelling I suppose - the design looks more "3D" than those coins actually are (quite flat designs). But it's probably just the photography.

The grade, assuming everything else is in order?

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34 minutes ago, Peckris 2 said:

Just the modelling I suppose - the design looks more "3D" than those coins actually are (quite flat designs). But it's probably just the photography.

I've looked closer and compared to it to the September proof and an EF circulation sample.  Many of the details appear "rounder", especially noticeable on the upper surface of the letters.  Could die wear cause something like this, as it's certainly not related to wear.  

Edited by Madness

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Assuming the coin is kosher I'd say around EF.

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14 hours ago, Peckris 2 said:

Just the modelling I suppose - the design looks more "3D" than those coins actually are (quite flat designs). But it's probably just the photography.

The 1787 fakey chinese one clearly demonstrates a poor copy :)

I know what you mean though, something just looks a little "off" with the one posted by @Madness

Edited by Unwilling Numismatist
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54 minutes ago, Unwilling Numismatist said:

The 1787 fakey chinese one clearly demonstrates a poor copy :)

I know what you mean though, something just looks a little "off" with the one posted by @Madness

Here is the eBay listing from which the image was taken:

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1787-GREAT-BRITAIN-925-Silver-NO-HEARTS-SIXPENCE-1-Year-TYPE-King-GEORGE-III/202408777702?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

 

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I think Peck has it, the lighting just makes it look more curvacious than it would normally appear.

Wonderful what a nights sleep and a mug of tea will do :)

 

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My guestimate: Extremely fine

This obverse has many imperfections, but they are almost all related to die deterioration in the form of wear, cracks and fill.  There is only minimal wear to the coin itself.  I find the toning a little puzzling.  What are the marks that look like rust?  Is it possible that the coin was in contact with a rusting metal surface and this stained the surface of the coin?  Are the very small gouges "bag marks"?

 

ijuFVFN.jpg

 

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3 hours ago, Madness said:

My guestimate: Extremely fine

This obverse has many imperfections, but they are almost all related to die deterioration in the form of wear, cracks and fill.  There is only minimal wear to the coin itself.  I find the toning a little puzzling.  What are the marks that look like rust?  Is it possible that the coin was in contact with a rusting metal surface and this stained the surface of the coin?  Are the very small gouges "bag marks"?

 

ijuFVFN.jpg

 

A decent EF that looks quite attractive IMO. The wear is only minimal. A few really small contact marks won't be a problem - it isn't pretending to be mint state.

Any toning can vary wildly as you have had no control over where the coin has been for the past 200 odd years. You don't know where it was stored and under what conditions, what surfaces it was contacting in that period, the humidity levels, the atmospheric conditions...........  It may have been in contact with a rusted object, but you would need to see it in hand to be certain. A quick perusal of the silver and copper threads will show you that toning can take on an infinite range of colours.

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