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Madness

Silliness of the "Un-researched Purchase" Variety

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18 hours ago, Madness said:

Seller agreed to partial refund of $200 AUD (about 110 GBP).  Stated that he already spent the money for medical bills and noted that he needed a couple of weeks to come up with the money.  I have no idea whether he is telling the truth or not (I can be quite gullible) so agreed to put off opening case until 13 August.  Hope that eBay will still let me make a claim within this time frame.

congratulations at least that extra money might allow you to buy a few more coins or books as we said....well done the most important thing is that you had the confidence to try and deal with it, if you are new and have confrontation issues I think that is hell of a step.  The coin is not important what is important is that a coin helped you confront more than its value.  Give that man a guinea and a slap on the back.

I agree open the case directly though ...if it was from England what is is doing having to pay medical bills....or perhaps (not being sexist) he is paying for breast implantations (he says guardedly) I am from the LGBTTVTS BBC community so I get a free parking card from the community chest. 

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Beautiful coin:

s0crsQq.jpg

Seller has graded this as gEF and, based on all the coins I've seen so far, I'm inclined to agree with him.  He's asking 300 GBP, which seems exorbitant given your comments.  It's so beautiful though!  What would be a reasonable price to offer?  Would the die crack  and clogged die (top of garter star) decrease its value?  A few months worth of saving here methinks and I don't want to waste it as with the guinea.

Thanks

Edited by Madness

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It is a very pretty coin, and the die crack and fill have little impact, but I would be reluctant to pay over book price for a coin that can be found in this sort of condition without much difficulty. Spink gives this at £150 in EF,  I would have thought a reasonable maximum offer should be around £200, with patience you will find the right coin at the right price. Some of us go to the coin fairs here in the UK,  one of our members has a stall there, maybe he would accept a commission?

Jerry

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18 minutes ago, jelida said:

It is a very pretty coin, and the die crack and fill have little impact, but I would be reluctant to pay over book price for a coin that can be found in this sort of condition without much difficulty. Spink gives this at £150 in EF,  I would have thought a reasonable maximum offer should be around £200, with patience you will find the right coin at the right price. Some of us go to the coin fairs here in the UK,  one of our members has a stall there, maybe he would accept a commission?

Jerry

I would be very happy to pay up to 200 GBP for a gEF 1787 shilling.  Won't be ready to buy for a couple of months though.  It would be cool if a trusted member could keep an eye open for me at fairs and give my contact details to a seller of a suitable coin.  I would pay that member a reasonable finder's fee as they would be doing me a great favour: My location restricts my search to the Internet.  Please let me know.  

Edited by Madness

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26 minutes ago, Madness said:

I would be very happy to pay up to 200 GBP for a gEF 1787 shilling.  Won't be ready to buy for a couple of months though.  It would be cool if a trusted member could keep an eye open for me at fairs and give my contact details to a seller of a suitable coin.  I would pay that member a reasonable finder's fee as they would be doing me a great favour: My location restricts my search to the Internet.  Please let me know.  

Will happily have a scout around at the fair in two weeks, and pass on details of any suitable vendors .Wouldn't want a fee.

Jerry

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Thanks kindly, Jerry.  Will send you a PM shortly.

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Agree with above comments - it's a nice example and a high grade but £300 is way too much IMO. As I've said several times before THESE AREN'T RARE! And are usually found in no worse than VF, often better.

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6 hours ago, jelida said:

Spink gives this at £150 in EF

And bear in mind that Spink prices are the toppermost of the poppermost - what you'd expect an insurance company to pay out, or a top dealer to charge for a very nice example. You'd only pay OVER Spink for the very rarest coins, that haven't appeared on the market for years. Having said that, this is better than EF and very pretty.

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It looks like the straight line going from the cheek, across the neck to the shoulder is a hairline. Where it crosses the falling hair curl are two light lines either side which would be indicative of raised metal thrown up when the cut was made. It's a nice coin for wear, but scratches don't help.

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There is one in the Davissons auction, and plenty of time to ponder. Some adjustment marks, but nice tone and the estimate is fair.

https://davcoin.com/lot/e-auction-26-lot-89

Jerry

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4 hours ago, jelida said:

There is one in the Davissons auction, and plenty of time to ponder. Some adjustment marks, but nice tone and the estimate is fair.

https://davcoin.com/lot/e-auction-26-lot-89

Jerry

Thanks very much for the suggestion, Jerry.  Do you agree with the gEF?  It seems to have less definition in details on the reverse than some other 1787 Shillings that I've seen graded as gEF.  Is this explained by a worn die?  I'd like to buy one with as much "clarity" (by which I mean sharp edges and minimal "blobbiness") as I can afford.

If there is correct terminology for the laughable expressions I use, please educate me!

Edited by Madness

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20 hours ago, Madness said:

Beautiful coin:

s0crsQq.jpg

Seller has graded this as gEF and, based on all the coins I've seen so far, I'm inclined to agree with him.  He's asking 300 GBP, which seems exorbitant given your comments.  It's so beautiful though!  What would be a reasonable price to offer?  Would the die crack  and clogged die (top of garter star) decrease its value?  A few months worth of saving here methinks and I don't want to waste it as with the guinea.

Thanks

Is it possible that the "V" in "GEORGIVS" is an inverted "A"?  Is this common?

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3 hours ago, Madness said:

Is it possible that the "V" in "GEORGIVS" is an inverted "A"?  Is this common?

Possible, yes, but I think it is probably a die crack, the bar of the ‘inverted A’ seems to be a bit higher than on the actual ‘A’ s on this coin.

As regards the Davissons coin, I think the grade is right but as you suggest a slightly worn die. 

Jerry

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18 minutes ago, jelida said:

Possible, yes, but I think it is probably a die crack, the bar of the ‘inverted A’ seems to be a bit higher than on the actual ‘A’ s on this coin.

As regards the Davissons coin, I think the grade is right but as you suggest a slightly worn die. 

Jerry

Yes, I noticed that too.  However, all three "A"s are slightly different, which lead me to consider the possibility further.  The letters were hand-stamped into the punches during the production of this coin, weren't they?  Was there a variety of letter "fonts" that these workers had to choose from?  Is the variation in the "A"s a result of this, or further evidence of die wear?

I looked at more 1787 shillings this afternoon and noticed two others with "clogging" near the base of this "V", but not as bad as this example.  I guess they could all have come from the same die with varying degrees of deterioration.  There were 122 recorded obverse dies and 125 reverse dies, so the odds of coming across three examples of the same die, in a state of deterioration, in a 90 minute period isn't very high.  Alternatively, was it common to have chips of metal coming out of dies at points like this?  What caused the chips?

Edited by Madness

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Reading about numismatics is fun.  Macquarie University in Sydney has a Centre for Ancient Numismatics, but only for those who already have an appropriate undrgrad degree.  I don't think a music degree counts, but the contemplation of a Bachelor of Ancient History is intriguing.  Studied two semesters of beginner's Ancient Greek (language) at Melbourne Uni about 25 years ago and then a couple of years of Koine Greek.  I've forgotten most of it, but this should help me gain entry. 

Hmm.... food for thought.  They offer the course externally as well as on campus.  Would keep the old grey matter ticking over rather than sitting at home staring at the ceiling.  

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I want this one @jelida.  Think you could get it for me for 200 GBP?  😉

9xJBpVH.jpg

Source: Upcoming DNW Auction

Seriously I'm interested in this lot as it has a few coins I'm after and gives me exposure to coins from different eras and different denominations.  What do you think?


Edit: Actually the cartwheel penny is in crap condition.  Any comments on the others?

Edited by Madness
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52 minutes ago, Madness said:

I want this one @jelida.  Think you could get it for me for 200 GBP?  😉

...

Source: Upcoming DNW Auction

Seriously I'm interested in this lot as it has a few coins I'm after and gives me exposure to coins from different eras and different denominations.  What do you think?


Edit: Actually the cartwheel penny is in crap condition.  Any comments on the others?

Very nice but I think your £50 per month budget would be blown for the couple of years! I suspect that lot will make more like £500 to £600 at DNW - they generally under-estimate. You have 3 or 4 coins in there that a dealer would move on at over £100 each, the 1718 quarter Guinea well over £200, so with the other bits quite a good lot. (The "Quarter" Farthing is actually a "Third".)

 

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17 minutes ago, Paddy said:

Very nice but I think your £50 per month budget would be blown for the couple of years! I suspect that lot will make more like £500 to £600 at DNW - they generally under-estimate. You have 3 or 4 coins in there that a dealer would move on at over £100 each, the 1718 quarter Guinea well over £200, so with the other bits quite a good lot. (The "Quarter" Farthing is actually a "Third".)

 

Bother.  I could have put my $200 refund from the guinea towards it.  

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Do I post too much? 

 

Quote

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Madness said:

Do I post too much? 

 

 

No......Keep going there is nothing else happening 😄

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1 hour ago, Paddy said:

Very nice but I think your £50 per month budget would be blown for the couple of years! I suspect that lot will make more like £500 to £600 at DNW - they generally under-estimate. You have 3 or 4 coins in there that a dealer would move on at over £100 each, the 1718 quarter Guinea well over £200, so with the other bits quite a good lot. (The "Quarter" Farthing is actually a "Third".)

Rather more than that! It's the proof...

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2 minutes ago, Peckris 2 said:

Rather more than that! It's the proof...

No the mixed lot Peck 😄

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7 minutes ago, Peckris 2 said:

Rather more than that! It's the proof...

 

4 minutes ago, PWA 1967 said:

No the mixed lot Peck 😄

Ah. In that case, I'd say rather less than that. It would all boil down to how much someone is prepared to pay for (not rare) nice examples of a LIMA halfcrown and shilling, and then how much they'd throw in extra for a (not rare) nice 1787 6d and 1887 double florin. There's not much else there to float anyone's boat.

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This is probably the best (non-proof) 1787 shilling for sale/auction that I've seen so far.  Auctioned 6-11 September.  They list it as MS64,  but here are at least five high points on the obverse that appear shinier than the others.  Is this due to wear, or reflections of a light source during photography?  Do you agree with grading?  What do you think would be a reasonable price?  McDonald's "Australian Coins and Banknotes" (2014 ed.) gives and estimate of $450 for this coin in uncirculated condition, which equates to about 250 GBP.  With the guinea partial-refund I should be able to afford that amount by the date of auction. 

Edit: It's possibly worth a bit more because of the "no dots on obverse" variation.

YZfkrvg.jpg

 

waI7aHC.jpg

 

Source

 

 

Edited by Madness

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On 8/3/2018 at 9:47 AM, Madness said:

This is probably the best (non-proof) 1787 shilling for sale/auction that I've seen so far.  Auctioned 6-11 September.  They list it as MS64,  but here are at least five high points on the obverse that appear shinier than the others.  Is this due to wear, or reflections of a light source during photography?  Do you agree with grading?  What do you think would be a reasonable price?  McDonald's "Australian Coins and Banknotes" (2014 ed.) gives and estimate of $450 for this coin in uncirculated condition, which equates to about 250 GBP.  With the guinea partial-refund I should be able to afford that amount by the date of auction. 

Edit: It's possibly worth a bit more because of the "no dots on obverse" variation.

Source

 

 

Ha!  This variant is obviously far rarer than I thought and worth more to collectors.  I found the same specimen in a previous auction here, evidenced by the same wear, die defects and haymarking. It sold for 2200 GBP in September 2017.  I wonder what it will go for twelve months later.  

I'll be kind and leave this one for someone else!  🤣

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