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jelida

Did anyone here buy this rare EBay penny?

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This 1860 penny sold on EBay a few days ago, I did put in a lowish bid but was deterred by the apparent corrosion, others were clearly more optimistic as it went for over £300. If it does clean, a bargain. If not, I suppose the price is fair, it appears to be excessively rare. But which is it? The obverse is clearly one of the thick rimmed early pattern/currency coins, but I cannot tell if the gaze is horizontal or downward. I cannot make out the shamrock etc clearly on the bodice. The reverse shield detail is delineated by double raised lines, not treble. Is this one of the Freeman 8 coins? Any ideas? 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/-/202347077689?nordt=true&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l10137

Thoughts appreciated.

Jerry

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Hard to tell, but my money is on a forward rather than downward gaze.

The two prominent die breaks on the reverse may be diagnostic for those in the know.

 

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31 minutes ago, jelida said:

This 1860 penny sold on EBay a few days ago, I did put in a lowish bid but was deterred by the apparent corrosion, others were clearly more optimistic as it went for over £300. If it does clean, a bargain. If not, I suppose the price is fair, it appears to be excessively rare. But which is it? The obverse is clearly one of the thick rimmed early pattern/currency coins, but I cannot tell if the gaze is horizontal or downward. I cannot make out the shamrock etc clearly on the bodice. The reverse shield detail is delineated by double raised lines, not treble. Is this one of the Freeman 8 coins? Any ideas? 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/-/202347077689?nordt=true&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l10137

Thoughts appreciated.

Jerry

Could it possibly be a pattern penny F762? - R & E of REG do not touch at the base.

No real idea, just a thought. Richard may be your man.     

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It's 1** + C from a known pairing of working dies (British Numismatic Journal vol. 87, page 197)...

Best Regards,

InforaPenny

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Yes, clearly A+c - the long stem on the shamrock is clear and definitely reverse c from the shield/cross details. Satin 2 - Very rare die pairing ! This will be only the 3rd example on my rarest website.

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It looks like an aged fake to me, the wear, on obv. and rev., is not consistent with the relief, the effigy shows several differences in both shape and form to the Freeman Obv. 1. The 'verdigris' and pieces of cake mask much. I'm no specialist in pennies, please correct me if I'm wrong.

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Diaconis,

You are correct in that it is not Freeman Obv 1. It is instead a rare 'early obverse' pattern type that was rejected by Queen Victoria on 4 July 1860, but had already been used in some trial coining runs at the Royal Mint. Fortunately for us bronze penny variety collectors, these were not destroyed but were later released for circulation.

Best Regards,

InforaPenny

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7 hours ago, InforaPenny said:

Diaconis,

You are correct in that it is not Freeman Obv 1. It is instead a rare 'early obverse' pattern type that was rejected by Queen Victoria on 4 July 1860, but had already been used in some trial coining runs at the Royal Mint. Fortunately for us bronze penny variety collectors, these were not destroyed but were later released for circulation.

Best Regards,

InforaPenny

Hi InforaPenny,

Interesting, thank you for enlightening me

Diaconis

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