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secret santa

Is the bottom falling out of the Penny market ?

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Like the stock market the numismatic market has cyclical ups and downs, and by virtue of their size , design and available literature pennies will always be amongst the more collected. Like stocks and shares you have to look at the long term. I have no intention of disposing of my collection, indeed a downturn is a buying opportunity. Just buy at the right prices and items that have lasting appeal to you and make sure your family know who to speak to when you pop your clogs,  they will likely be pleased and you won’t care!

Jerry

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One thing I have noticed has been the recent dearth of pennies on offer anywhere. Moreover, no auctions of collections for some time, as far as I know.   

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4 hours ago, secret santa said:

This reflects my own view - I think I have missed out on the optimum time to dispose of my collection so the question is whether to wait and hope for an upturn or cut my losses and sell before things get worse?

Don't panic Richard, you have had these thoughts before. The market for high grade pennies, especially high grade rarities is always on the up. Anyhow, what would you do with the money ? stash it in the bank at 1.5% interest. Selling would give you more time to watch the adverts on the telly !!

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7 hours ago, jelida said:

Like the stock market the numismatic market has cyclical ups and downs, and by virtue of their size , design and available literature pennies will always be amongst the more collected. Like stocks and shares you have to look at the long term. I have no intention of disposing of my collection, indeed a downturn is a buying opportunity. Just buy at the right prices and items that have lasting appeal to you and make sure your family know who to speak to when you pop your clogs,  they will likely be pleased and you won’t care!

Jerry

Yes its a good point.......A downturn is a good buying opportunity 🙂

The coin cabinet auction had quite a lot of which only about half sold and although i dont know anything about most of the coins the pennies seemed to have reasonable estimates but not many bids.

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A downturn is a good opportunity to buy certainly for purist  collectors who have no concern with future resale values.

The reality is that Penny values will never recover in the lifetimes of most Penny collectors including myself.

Has anyone in the last 10 years come across a ‘new’ penny collector ? .. we all know who we are and when we’re gone theres no one else really 

Personally, if static and declining resale values are a concern for you , I would sell and buy Classic Cars, Classic Watches , Gold ...

 

 

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LOL, Colin, good points. I don't see there being a new infusion either. I think the thing that got me about the 1952 penny is that there is only one, and I would have thought there would have been at least two old codgers that would go swing for that. Is the 1933 twice as valuable? Yikes!

I had great hopes that someday my best pennies might be worth something, but not so much methinks.....

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2 hours ago, Colin88 said:

A downturn is a good opportunity to buy certainly for purist  collectors who have no concern with future resale values.

The reality is that Penny values will never recover in the lifetimes of most Penny collectors including myself.

Has anyone in the last 10 years come across a ‘new’ penny collector ? .. we all know who we are and when we’re gone theres no one else really 

Personally, if static and declining resale values are a concern for you , I would sell and buy Classic Cars, Classic Watches , Gold ...

 

 

Really? Are penny values ( poor examples and excellent examples ) really that depressed in real terms?

If there is a lull, it surely will pick up again, I think in a few years, not a 'lifetime'...  

There are new young people collecting...there will always be a supply of the right sort of brain in each generation.

Maybe there are people under 20 reading this.......:-)

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52 minutes ago, VickySilver said:

LOL, Colin, good points. I don't see there being a new infusion either. I think the thing that got me about the 1952 penny is that there is only one, and I would have thought there would have been at least two old codgers that would go swing for that. Is the 1933 twice as valuable? Yikes!

I had great hopes that someday my best pennies might be worth something, but not so much methinks.....

In which case, cut your losses and sell. I'll take a Minton, Lavrillier and a KN - then I'm done with bronze pennies. You can also throw in a Derwent Wood pattern anything and a Victorian decimal penny to save the hassle of selling separately. :ph34r: All options considered.

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If you held my feet to the flame I would bet my entire penny collection that no one under 20 is reading this .. and if they are then they have have got here by accident via a porn site. 

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6 minutes ago, Colin88 said:

If you held my feet to the flame I would bet my entire penny collection that no one under 20 is reading this .. and if they are then they have have got here by accident via a porn site. 

You might be surprised. Coin porn has been mentioned on occasion, so googling porn could result in some unexpected readers!

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That’s the way I got here ...

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1 hour ago, VickySilver said:

LOL, Colin, good points. I don't see there being a new infusion either. I think the thing that got me about the 1952 penny is that there is only one, and I would have thought there would have been at least two old codgers that would go swing for that. Is the 1933 twice as valuable? Yikes!

I had great hopes that someday my best pennies might be worth something, but not so much methinks.....

The 1952 penny may have failed to sell because most penny collectors collect currency coins. The 1952 penny could be classed as a pattern, so not issued for currency. Therefore the 1952 penny may not be considered as valuable as the 1933 & 1954. The coin, if sold for ~80K was probably double what the collector owner paid for it just a few years ago.

Edited by Bernie

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27 minutes ago, blakeyboy said:

Really? Are penny values ( poor examples and excellent examples ) really that depressed in real terms?

If there is a lull, it surely will pick up again, I think in a few years, not a 'lifetime'...  

There are new young people collecting...there will always be a supply of the right sort of brain in each generation.

Maybe there are people under 20 reading this.......:-)

I'm not sure personally. If they have fallen, I can't say I've noticed. 

There will always be collectors and the collecting mindset will attach itself to something well documented - Peck, Freeman and Gouby were the pathfinders in that respect for modern milled pennies. They aren't solely reliant on the baby boomer generation for continued interest. Just as ancient coins were never reliant on people who were alive when they were circulating. 

At the end of the day, I collect pennies because of the interest and multi variety and certainly have no intention of selling my collection, irrespective of value. 

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Exactly .. to the purest collector value is not of primary importance.

However at some point it will be 

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10 hours ago, Colin88 said:

Exactly .. to the purest collector value is not of primary importance.

However at some point it will be 

Yes, monetary value was never a consideration in my collecting although I was always hoping that it would hold its value in case I found myself with the need for costly medical attention or care.

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17 hours ago, Bernie said:

The 1952 penny may have failed to sell because most penny collectors collect currency coins. The 1952 penny could be classed as a pattern, so not issued for currency. Therefore the 1952 penny may not be considered as valuable as the 1933 & 1954. The coin, if sold for ~80K was probably double what the collector owner paid for it just a few years ago.

80K +premium =£100K. Mark Rasmussen had it in his list 9 (circa 2005 I'm guessing) for £37,500 (before he tried to sell it this time), so a near 200% rise in asking price over 15 years is pretty good going, well above inflation.

I don't know what it fetched at its original Baldwin's sale of 1997, but would have been less than 37K (at a guess 25K hammer) I would presume.

Anyway, I came to this site via Predecimal Foreplay - that's for the not so sprightly of us......

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2 hours ago, oldcopper said:

80K +premium =£100K. Mark Rasmussen had it in his list 9 (circa 2005 I'm guessing) for £37,500 (before he tried to sell it this time), so a near 200% rise in asking price over 15 years is pretty good going, well above inflation.

I don't know what it fetched at its original Baldwin's sale of 1997, but would have been less than 37K (at a guess 25K hammer) I would presume.

Anyway, I came to this site via Predecimal Foreplay - that's for the not so sprightly of us......

Must have been sold post auction. 

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1997 Baldwin 125th Anniv Sale: Price before commission

 

1952 Penny   -    21k quid

1952 Halfcrown -  22k quid

 

So how much would the proof 1952 2/6 go for?

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On 6/17/2019 at 4:48 PM, Rob said:

You might be surprised. Coin porn has been mentioned on occasion, so googling porn could result in some unexpected readers!

That's how I got here initially... 🙄

The earliest memories I have of coins in hand were the bigger 50ps... so never saw a predecimal coin except in a tin my dad had. Obviously cash still reigned supreme, but my interest since mid-20s was always further back, without ever having connected to the predecimal system. 

I was thinking about young lads I know who collect things... Magic cards is one thing at the minute... There's an end result to collecting those in that you play the game with them.

The collector mentality is pervasive in society. But the *outlet* has to be kept going, by promoting the hobby and linking it to our history. That's not to say that younger collectors will have a spare £1600k to buy a not-very-pretty few grams of bronze. But the buy in is gradual and has to start somewhere. 

 

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20 hours ago, damian1986 said:

The collector mentality is pervasive in society. But the *outlet* has to be kept going, by promoting the hobby and linking it to our history. That's not to say that younger collectors will have a spare £1600k to buy a not-very-pretty few grams of bronze. But the buy in is gradual and has to start somewhere. 

Sometimes rarity alone is almost enough. Look at picture postcards (which are now sent as a tiny % of olden days), and vinyl records even before the resurgence of interest in new vinyl releases. Numismatics I believe is the  oldest hobby going back hundreds, maybe 000's of years?

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I think coins were collected fairly soon after the concept of a coinage was introduced.

The evidence is certainly there for numismatic hoarding by the Roman period, because the Bolsena hoard, sold as part of the Sarti sale in 1906, contained practically as struck sestertii covering a period of 200 years or so. There is no way that high grade sestertii would survive in circulation for so long, leaving a numismatic collection as the only sensible alternative.

The artistry employed in engraving coins would be as recognisable as that seen on jewellery or other artefacts, so there is no obvious reason for not collecting them.

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On 20 June 2019 at 12:29 AM, Rob said:

I think coins were collected fairly soon after the concept of a coinage was introduced.

The evidence is certainly there for numismatic hoarding by the Roman period, because the Bolsena hoard, sold as part of the Sarti sale in 1906, contained practically as struck sestertii covering a period of 200 years or so. There is no way that high grade sestertii would survive in circulation for so long, leaving a numismatic collection as the only sensible alternative.

The artistry employed in engraving coins would be as recognisable as that seen on jewellery or other artefacts, so there is no obvious reason for not collecting them.

Yes, it was probably egotistical Emperors who collected the artwork of their own visages on coins, and of the 'deities' their ancestors had become.

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