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i had tried graphite a couple of years ago but it was too reflective and the contrast was less obvious than I thought it might be.  This new method allows me to make images and I can not unravel the Knot pattern with greater ease.  

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Can you share any images that might help me see what you see?

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yes I will do once I have done a full set .  I have been at it three years so no rush at the end and I would like to let you see the replication of the form in a number of different denominations and over time 

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I can describe it for you which might help me and you. It is a little like a complex geometric KNOT, but rather than containing geometric lines as similar patterns do in islamic art  and celtic art this one uses a triangulated  association of animals, namely a Lion and usually associated with two smaller "cubs" or "lambs" in the first instance.  There is a lot of  artistic ambiguity in the form and it is anatomically possible that it is either or both ( as lamb and cub each have triangular forms bounded by the ears and the nose of similar dimensions at  a young age ) .  All of these rely on a triangular tessellation pattern. However it is complex but if you stick with the "triangle" idea alone the pattern "rotates... it moves" in the same way that a stop frame dynamic painting or picture shows movement it can do this because there are set points in the arrangement the ears, eyes, and nose. in a remarkable way the triangulation points "move" move independently yet each one contributes to the next in a ribbon like flow.  So there is a definite geometry to it similar to what in modern day we would call a triangular fractal like growth pattern which uses a simple device of the sharing of elements to make up a larger form. 

One remarkable feature of it is, which gives it a beautiful pathos, that lion to "lamb" noses touch or the Lion licks the the Lamb.  Of course this may well have an allegorical meaning Lion as protector and security but also carer together with the most obvious reference to Kingship and Protector and also Christian motif Lion and Lamb.   

I fully accept the bizarre nature of the theory but I am happy to continue to research it.  In later coins I believe some other "knots" are added one of which appears to be a jumble linear code using the motif of HONI SOIT QUE MAL Y PENSE and a triangular association similar to the Lion Lamb one which uses the George and Dragon image.  The Two later "knots" I have only thus far found  to begin in the Bronze series from 1860 and there is some overlap.   I only noticed it at first in the Bronze series and thought that it may have been the remnant of the "lost" design of LCW  lost as a result of technical problems with the new material. (there appears to be obscure references suggesting that the first designs would not work as the relief was too high and the die had to be recut forced on the artist by the material change in 1859 1860 )  

Initially I noticed that in coins buried in the soil that a pattern seemed to emerge suggesting a variable rate to corrosion and this often followed some type of non random line.  There are lines which do not appear to be the result of wear or random nature. These cross the surface of the design passing through the extant design and it is these cross cutting lines that the method using lamp black and fat help me to plot.  If nothing else they will show that across the surface these "cross cuts" are not random as they appear again and again in the same shape or position. The most obvious of these triangles can be seen in the shield and in the area below the drapes which pick out underlying pattern and it intrigues me if this is an intentional act or not.  

Other forum members have pointed out the stupidity of the idea and  questioned its purpose and the method by which it might be delivered to the coin face. Together with the difficulty in the theory of how any "authority" could recognises if there is a problem  with counterfeiting.  Hence the need to identify a simple method or recognition which is where I returned to first principles of finding a method that could be used with materials available at the time.  The method of application of this "hidden" pattern I can only assume to either by etching onto the die or etching onto the blanks.  This raises the many problems that have been pointed out by members and in general I am considered the resident crack pot LOL.....but I persist for no other reason than the novelty of the approach and the skills of observation it has afforded me.  I have spent my life in these strange "no man's land" scenarios so as long as my constitution holds I will try see this through to the end point.  If it is not there it will make for a very funny, poignant and reflective book on the onset of mental health issues. But for now I still believe in my own sanity at least.  I had hoped that a few more adventurous members would join in my quest but that seems unlikely for the moment as they cannot suspend the initial barrier to the idea , which I fully understand as I had them myself three years ago when I started to question this.  As a scientist I am happy to nullify it, at some point, but not until the negative evidence outranks the positives and so far the positive is winning (in my mind).  :)

The patterns exists in Gold and Silver (often easier to see in fact)  and the other metals 

 

Edited by DrLarry
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Whether or not I agree with the thesis, I can only admire the research and investigation that's gone into it.

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The animals that you see on coins Larry well maybe if they have lustre it might be a reflection....... looking at your avatar ?.

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36 minutes ago, PWA 1967 said:

The animals that you see on coins Larry well maybe if they have lustre it might be a reflection....... looking at your avatar ?.

I took that picture in 2006 ten years I started finding them.  it is about the only picture that i have ever been happy looking at, I am not of the selfie generation.  I am a leo and my name is Larry like the Lamb, it is well noted in my book that this bizarre set of connectives has not gone unnoticed by me too.  I also spent many years looking after lions and big cats walking with Cheetahs and almost every day with a lion or ten sitting above my head with me in the cage feeding them  and I have been squirted over by tigers and one of the few people in the world silly enough or unique enough to have stuck my finger between the pads of a large Bengal tigers Paw.  I also love tigger and winnie the pooh but that does not make me bouncy.   I also love Trilobites but I have never found an image of arthropod in a coin as yet.  

But I enjoyed your interjection, have a point, because the audience enjoyed the challenge. 

Edited by DrLarry

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12 minutes ago, DrLarry said:

 I also love Trilobites but I have never found an image of arthropod in a coin as yet.  

Phew. For a moment there I thought you said Tribbles...

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you will be happy to know that I have spent the last couple of days looking at the area around the ribbons of the 1967 and a set of very similar arrangements are showing up very nicely using the new method.  I have taken about 150 images which I am preparing now for you.  Not wishing to direct your interpretation I have to accept that these are not the easiest things to see initially and to understand the closest approximation I can find is Guernica by Picasso the content is obvious and a bull is a BULL  AS  a lion is a lion in this but they form a series of interconnecting overlapping patterns like a Venn diagram some of which show visual distortion and altered simultaneous perspective (similar to the way cubism works or modernism) and before anyone jumps of the historical inadequacy that modernism did not exist at the time of William III early proto geometric art or cycladic art also shows some aspects of fractured altered perspective in the 8 C BC and pieces like the Lion Man from Germany is animalism non realism and that is what 40.000 years BP 

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8 minutes ago, Peckris said:

Phew. For a moment there I thought you said Tribbles...

oh he was the Croatian that scored was he not.  I am sure he is quite lovable but I have no idea what he is like, other than he scores goals 

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2 minutes ago, DrLarry said:

oh he was the Croatian that scored was he not.  I am sure he is quite lovable but I have no idea what he is like, other than he scores goals 

He's very lovable, but turn your back on him for a few hours and there will be millions of him.

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Does anyone have a bulk load of Elizabeth II pennies they want to sell? 

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1 hour ago, DrLarry said:

Does anyone have a bulk load of Elizabeth II pennies they want to sell? 

I can probably help you. Do you want only better grade ones or will you take any grade and date? 

I have kilos of pennies in a box - I could sort some out for you, but the majority will be 1967 I fear. I do also have a coin roll or two of 1965 pennies...

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Yes 67 is fine Elizabeth I I  Paddy  let me know what you have in terms of kilos that you might let me have a price on. Thanks Larry 

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8 minutes ago, DrLarry said:

Yes 67 is fine Elizabeth I I  Paddy  let me know what you have in terms of kilos that you might let me have a price on. Thanks Larry 

OK - I will sort some out for you tomorrow and PM you. I suspect postage will be the biggest factor!

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23 hours ago, Peckris said:

Phew. For a moment there I thought you said Tribbles...

Is Harcourt Fenton Mudd a Forum member?

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Both he and Stella are members.

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Ah....is she field_walker then?

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well everyone thanks for all your opinions and help with this topic.  Perhaps you are right.  So I think what I shall do is write a short essay on the subject the process, the findings and your opinions and then I can keep it for posterity. If anyone is interested e mail me message me directly.  Many thanks Larry 

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i will leave you with these images  then with these in the hope you can see these too. I think it might help 

1861.jpg

1930.jpg

Edited by DrLarry

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Both images are reduplicated patterns.

The top one looks like a row of baby birds looking up into foliage.

The bottom one looks like Theresa May's footprints in a field of wheat.

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I do like these. The bottom one is a hand from the right offering a rose. I will have a look at the first. The trick is to de-focus.

Jerry

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The first is a wolf or Alsatian head facing the viewer.

Jerry

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very good Jerry 

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at least we both see the same in one context 

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