LCA JUNE

[PWA 1967 1,841]

Online for anyone interested 

[jaggy 528]

Very little in that catalogue for me, unfortunately. 

[rpeddie 119]

I don't understand why people submit coins to LCA.

The amount of bidding wars i get into against other live internet bidders is enough to tell me that them not offering it reduces the end price. Combine this with their lack of replying to emails and you have a lose lose.

live bidding would be an investment that i feel would be recouped after 1 auction with the increase in prices 

Edited May 8, 2018 by rpeddie

[Peter 615]

LCGS waynekers

[zookeeperz 470]

1 hour ago, rpeddie said:

I don't understand why people submit coins to LCA.

The amount of bidding wars i get into against other live internet bidders is enough to tell me that them not offering it reduces the end price. Combine this with their lack of replying to emails and you have a lose lose.

live bidding would be an investment that i feel would be recouped after 1 auction with the increase in prices 

yes I must admit reading through all the auction prices realised to me it reads like a dealers convention as most of the sales are not anywhere near the value of the coins. Which I know all too well. And it isn't in their interest to get outbid on lots they have a vested interest in.

[Rob 3,000]

13 minutes ago, zookeeperz said:

yes I must admit reading through all the auction prices realised to me it reads like a dealers convention as most of the sales are not anywhere near the value of the coins. Which I know all too well. And it isn't in their interest to get outbid on lots they have a vested interest in.

By that do you mean too high or too low and ultimately what constitutes the real value given none of the references are definitive? 

 

[zookeeperz 470]

14 minutes ago, Rob said:

By that do you mean too high or too low and ultimately what constitutes the real value given none of the references are definitive? 

 

too low .

Old pals act  

[jaggy 528]

For me, they simply don't have the dates or the quality I am looking for. However, I think that is also a function of my maturing collection as I have most of what I want and the stuff I don't have tends to be rarer and comes up less often at auction. In terms of quality, where I am looking to upgrade there is plenty of run of the mill material but not much top end.

So now I am tending to buy in ones and twos from a variety of sources, both auctions and dealers. 

[Rob 3,000]

1 hour ago, zookeeperz said:

too low .

Old pals act  

For every dealer there are literally hundreds of collectors, so surely the prices realised are a reflection of collectors' unwillingness to pay 'a fair price' at auction. Time and time again, you encounter people whose sole reference point for prices is eBay, and in consequence are always working on the expectation of picking up something for 99p. No auction excludes people because they aren't a dealer, so with a level playing field in terms of access to bidding, it boils down to the collector's willingness to pay. The auctioneer is never going to knock things down for less rather than more, as his commission is usually a percentage of hammer.

[zookeeperz 470]

52 minutes ago, Rob said:

For every dealer there are literally hundreds of collectors, so surely the prices realised are a reflection of collectors' unwillingness to pay 'a fair price' at auction. Time and time again, you encounter people whose sole reference point for prices is eBay, and in consequence are always working on the expectation of picking up something for 99p. No auction excludes people because they aren't a dealer, so with a level playing field in terms of access to bidding, it boils down to the collector's willingness to pay. The auctioneer is never going to knock things down for less rather than more, as his commission is usually a percentage of hammer.

I would never use ebay as a yardstick.  I was more thinking of the book prices excluding Spinks as to me they are more like and insurance purpose price as in if you needed to replace a coin. You see plenty of coins bought then resold at the next auction and they go for even less . So I guess it's always going to be a supply and demand thing. The more pieces of a coin there are it doesn't make it an urgency to buy it at that particular time. But scarce pieces that very rarely make auctions will always attract a good market. Plus collectors are less inclined to buy  mixed lots as they will buy the niche coin that they need for their collection and that is where you see the biggest drop in prices realised. I think they make the lots too large and to diverse sometimes. I like the larger mixed lots personally as a buyer but not as a consigner. But you can't have your cake and eat it. But if they had live bidding the prices realised would increase by some margin. So the only reason for them not doing it is purely so they get to cherry pick for themselves.

[jaggy 528]

6 minutes ago, zookeeperz said:

I would never use ebay as a yardstick.  I was more thinking of the book prices excluding Spinks as to me they are more like and insurance purpose price as in if you needed to replace a coin. You see plenty of coins bought then resold at the next auction and they go for even less . So I guess it's always going to be a supply and demand thing. The more pieces of a coin there are it doesn't make it an urgency to buy it at that particular time. But scarce pieces that very rarely make auctions will always attract a good market. Plus collectors are less inclined to buy  mixed lots as they will buy the niche coin that they need for their collection and that is where you see the biggest drop in prices realised. I think they make the lots too large and to diverse sometimes. I like the larger mixed lots personally as a buyer but not as a consigner. But you can't have your cake and eat it. But if they had live bidding the prices realised would increase by some margin. So the only reason for them not doing it is purely so they get to cherry pick for themselves.

I never buy mixed lots and very rarely do I buy a lot with more than one coin in it. I often wonder who buys the larger lots and speculate that it may be dealers replenishing stock or e-bay sellers buying stock. 

[Rob 3,000]

The higher the grades, the more likely it is to be dealers. The lower grade bulk goes on eBay.

Lotting is a difficult one. You obviously can't combine lots from different vendors, so a single person's submission will really depend on the overall value of the consignment. You don't want lots with an estimate of a fiver, otherwise you would be all day making not a lot of money. That can easily lead to diverse lots.

I still don't see how any one person can cherry pick at lower prices in a free and fair auction. If somebody wants a lot then they will continue bidding, and if a collector, they can pay more than a dealer because the latter needs to make a margin. 

Virtually every collector I have known has pushed the boat out on a bulk lot to get a particular coin of interest. Whether it is a bulk lot or a complete collection you are buying, in my experience the initial outlay is nearly always covered with interest when the unwanteds are sold, so on balance worth pursuing. 

[Peter 615]

i hate buying to flip a profit.I usually buy because I like a coin...hence my coin room is heaving but guarded by my Daaawg....and my handy truncheon.

[zookeeperz 470]

7 hours ago, Rob said:

The higher the grades, the more likely it is to be dealers. The lower grade bulk goes on eBay.

Lotting is a difficult one. You obviously can't combine lots from different vendors, so a single person's submission will really depend on the overall value of the consignment. You don't want lots with an estimate of a fiver, otherwise you would be all day making not a lot of money. That can easily lead to diverse lots.

I still don't see how any one person can cherry pick at lower prices in a free and fair auction. If somebody wants a lot then they will continue bidding, and if a collector, they can pay more than a dealer because the latter needs to make a margin. 

Virtually every collector I have known has pushed the boat out on a bulk lot to get a particular coin of interest. Whether it is a bulk lot or a complete collection you are buying, in my experience the initial outlay is nearly always covered with interest when the unwanteds are sold, so on balance worth pursuing. 

LCA do exactly that Rob. The leave out a lot of info that should be mentioned in the sales. I know I have suffered twice at their hands. Never again they are a bunch of crooks. They cherry pick for themselves. slab and resell. The first time I was a complete novice and bought the line that a lot of material is overlooked and most collectors are looking for top end coins. I never made scrap value. second time I valued everything at F condition and halved it and put that as a reserve which came out @ £3500. Now obviously there was well over £6000 worth of coins and bloody rare ones too boot. I was told that putting a reserve on would put bidders off so I reluctantly took it off. such a bad move 285kg  6 years putting together a collection Including Irish with 1961 mules and key date coins . catalogue said mainly base metal with a smattering of silver. Total BS. £1175 I got back not even scrap value. And I saw one of my coins on their website so I know I got stitched up. That experience put me off even looking at a coin for almost 8 years. So I think if you consign then it has to be in moderation . Something the size of what I had should not have gone in one lot. the irish should of been split and really so should all the countries. there was more than enough to make decent single lots of their own. If I ever did consign which I doubt but if I did I would defo put a reserve price on. Nothing massive but definitely 65% of what is a normal fair market price. But we live and learn as the saying goes.

 

[1949threepence 3,366]

17 hours ago, rpeddie said:

I don't understand why people submit coins to LCA.

The amount of bidding wars i get into against other live internet bidders is enough to tell me that them not offering it reduces the end price. Combine this with their lack of replying to emails and you have a lose lose.

live bidding would be an investment that i feel would be recouped after 1 auction with the increase in prices 

Couldn't agree more. Plus with live internet bidding, you are the master of your own destiny in a sense. E mail bids are reliant on others not beating you to the draw.

Obviously you can always attend in person, and make a room bid. But that isn't always a practical proposition for everybody, given distance, travel costs, other home/work commitments etc.     

[1949threepence 3,366]

Incidentally, nothing to really spark my interest in the LCA. Massive pity the 1863 die No 4 under date, isn't at least fair. I might have gone for it - but a clear date washer? Not really.   

[VickySilver 775]

The 1854 florin is fairly nice and a legitimate VF, amongst the better seen.

[secret santa 2,013]

5 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

Massive pity the 1863 die No 4 under date, isn't at least fair. I might have gone for it - but a clear date washer? Not really.   

Just about all the die 4s that I've seen have been very well worn. I've never seen one better than AF as I recall. You could wait for ever for a nice one.

[1949threepence 3,366]

2 hours ago, secret santa said:

Just about all the die 4s that I've seen have been very well worn. I've never seen one better than AF as I recall. You could wait for ever for a nice one.

Good point.

[Peckris 579]

20 hours ago, jaggy said:

I never buy mixed lots and very rarely do I buy a lot with more than one coin in it. I often wonder who buys the larger lots and speculate that it may be dealers replenishing stock or e-bay sellers buying stock. 

You'd be surprised. Dealers don't want lots with a few good pieces in and a pile of dross that will sit on their shelves forever. They might put in very low bids, but a keen collector could outbid, unless they too didn't know what to do with the dross.

I got a few such lots when I was a list dealer - I'd cherry pick the good stuff for myself, recording a buying price of say 2/3 book; then I'd put a lot of the rest on my list, selling at under book but still making a notional 100% profit; after that, the dross worked out all but free and I didn't really care what happened to it.

(This was late 90s, well before eBay).

[PWA 1967 1,841]

10 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

Good point.

Nothing wrong with having a gap Mike, there is no way i would pay so much for that especially being No 4 

Edited May 10, 2018 by PWA 1967

[1949threepence 3,366]

2 hours ago, PWA 1967 said:

Nothing wrong with having a gap Mike, there is no way i would pay so much for that especially being No 4 

I think 4 is the "commonest", as it were, of the die No under date 1863's, Pete.  

[PWA 1967 1,841]

49 minutes ago, 1949threepence said:

I think 4 is the "commonest", as it were, of the die No under date 1863's, Pete.  

Yes....Thats what i mean  about all you can see the 4 

Edited May 10, 2018 by PWA 1967

[PWA 1967 1,841]

Just been looking at the results....Will be some happy vendors again 

[jaggy 528]

So .... I bid on four lots and won three of them all well under my maximum bid:

1. 1904, Threepence, Large Ball on 3, NGC graded MS66. A nice addition to my Edward VII type set.

2. 1930 sixpence in an LCGS holder and graded LCGS 88.

3. 1697 sixpence. Third Bust, Later Harp, Large Crowns, in an NGC holder and graded NGC MS62. I already have a couple of these but this is an upgrade.

While I was a little bit disappointed that this sale didn't have any of my 'must have' coins, still nice to get these ones.

 

Edited June 4, 2018 by jaggy