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BarryS

Louis XVIII 5 Franc "signed"

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Would anyone please be able to give me some more information on this, as I can't find anything similar online?

They are actually two single sided "coins" that came in a tiny wooden case.

 

Thanks!

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Edited by BarryS
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You may be on to something with your link - my poor translation of French suggests the the link indicates trial slices.

I can offer no more than good luck in your search, but do hang around, one of the more knowledgable chaps should be along soon! :)

 

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Thanks for the reply UN.

I've had a look at other listings on the site, and "tranche", in this case, refers to the edge of the coin.

Still no more joy....

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That one doesn't have the A to the right of the date though. As the Paris museum lists theirs as a Uniface piece, this may bode well for what you have ;)

 

 

 

 

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Good luck with it it - get some professional help if you're selling, ebay probably isn't the best location for something as significant as that might be!

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1 minute ago, Unwilling Numismatist said:

Good luck with it it - get some professional help if you're selling, ebay probably isn't the best location for something as significant as that might be!

I'm interested in the research side of things for the moment, don't want to get too excited too soon! ;)

Any ideas on who could I approach for more information on it? 

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I would approach CGB and Paris museum, information relating to similar items above is from both these sources, I would therefore assume they would be more familiar with what it actually is or be able to give you leads for further research.

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Just now, Chingford said:

I would approach CGB and Paris museum, information relating to similar items above is from both these sources, I would therefore assume they would be more familiar with what it actually is or be able to give you leads for further research.

Just rang the museum and they're closed for renovation work. CGB is next on the list.

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Oh and I forgot to show the Chamois leather pouch it comes in; somebody obviously wanted to look after it! :wub:

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The associated shells and bags are probably as supplied originally. 

The museum pieces are lead splashes which was commonly used as a metal for test pieces to see what the impression looks like before the dies are hardened. Yours could be either silver or tin looking at them, with a personal preference for tin given the colour of the blank sides. Unifaces were often made when producing a new design. I have a few.

They will almost certainly be genuine. The bust on your coin was used on regular currency in 1816, so presumably is a trial struck at the end of 1815 when preparing dies for the following year.

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You say “tiny” what is the diameter, if small these look like a tentative essai for a 5 francs in gold, all the 1815 essais for 5 francs silver submitted by Michaud and others are betwwen 37 and 38mm according to VG

no essais for a 5 franc in gold are listed for Louis xviii, these first minted for Napoleon iii in 1855

I would definitely contact CGB, I’ve found them very helpful in the past

 

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27 minutes ago, Rob said:

The associated shells and bags are probably as supplied originally. 

The museum pieces are lead splashes which was commonly used as a metal for test pieces to see what the impression looks like before the dies are hardened. Yours could be either silver or tin looking at them, with a personal preference for tin given the colour of the blank sides. Unifaces were often made when producing a new design. I have a few.

They will almost certainly be genuine. The bust on your coin was used on regular currency in 1816, so presumably is a trial struck at the end of 1815 when preparing dies for the following year.

Thanks for the information Rob. The two pieces weigh a shade under 20 grams. Heavier than a silver half crown, which is smaller, and only 7 grams less than a much bulkier Churchill commemorative coin (not sure what it's made of). I'm in the middle of nowhere in France, so I don't have anywhere to go to test the metal unfortunately.

Would I be right in assuming that this is a rare find?

Thanks in advance

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17 minutes ago, Unwilling Numismatist said:

Welcome to the Forum btw :) Looks like your Monday is getting the week off to a very interesting start. Do keep us informed!

Haha, thanks. I'm just sorting through a load of coins that my wife inherited, and coins are a new thing to me, so the whole day has been very interesting! I've got loads of cool finds to investigate, including a Restoration of Ferdinand IV medal !

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6 minutes ago, davidrj said:

You say “tiny” what is the diameter, if small these look like a tentative essai for a 5 francs in gold, all the 1815 essais for 5 francs silver submitted by Michaud and others are betwwen 37 and 38mm according to VG

no essais for a 5 franc in gold are listed for Louis xviii, these first minted for Napoleon iii in 1855

I would definitely contact CGB, I’ve found them very helpful in the past

 

Hi David,

The "coins" are 37mm in diameter, so not "tiny". What is VG, another online resource?

I've sent an email to CGB this evening, so hopefully they'll get back to me soon. It's really interesting this numismatics lark! :):) 

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VG is a standard source book for French coins

Monnaies francaises  - Colonies 1670-1942, Metropole 1771-1942, VG (Victor Guilloteau) Versailles 1942. My copy is a reprint, prices are in Vichy French francs.

your pieces match VG 2454, but no mention of uniface pieces like yours

the adopted design was by Tiolier

 

Edited by davidrj

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20 hours ago, Unwilling Numismatist said:

 

20 hours ago, Chingford said:

I would approach CGB and Paris museum, information relating to similar items above is from both these sources, I would therefore assume they would be more familiar with what it actually is or be able to give you leads for further research.

Well, what a crazy day! 

Just spoken to CGB and it seems that they are indeed original, and were proofs/ideas submitted by Michaud in the hope of winning the commission for the coin! Which he did 👍

Super rare apparently, and worth about £3000!!

I'm completely gobsmacked! 

🤪🤪🤪

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19 hours ago, BarryS said:

Haha, thanks. I'm just sorting through a load of coins that my wife inherited, and coins are a new thing to me, so the whole day has been very interesting! I've got loads of cool finds to investigate, including a Restoration of Ferdinand IV medal !

Congratulations, we all dream of finds like that! :) 

please show us what else is in your wife’s hoard, there may be other treasures lurking

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Haha, you know it! There are about 1000 old pennies to look through, loads of tokens, and a load of 1790- coins as well. Going to be busy every night after work! 😁😁

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