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craigy

Peering into the darkness with R Ingram Coins lol

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2 hours ago, RIC said:

Hi all,

 

Our attention has been brought to this thread and we wanted to say hello and make a response.

 

Firstly we hope you are safe & well in very challenging times, looking on the positive side, possibly a good chance to enjoy a bit more time on the great hobby that is numismatics.

 

We acknowledge the point about the pictures, this is something which we are looking to improve and have been liaising with a photographer about. We plan to purchase a new camera and have a new lighting set up as well – possibly a mini studio or a ring light? Would welcome any opinions on this as well as what might be a good camera to get specifically for photographing coins.

 

Whilst both of us are experienced numismatists we do sometimes make mistakes. Invariably when a mistake is made one or other of us is very frustrated with ourselves! We try our best and over the years we are proud to have helped many collectors enhance their collections, but yes we do sometimes make errors and we are sorry for this.

 

Specifically with regards the 1882 Penny we purchased this from a well-known source who identified it as F115. Our error was in trusting this and not being thorough enough in checking this. Unfortunately our photos were not clear enough (Again would appreciate any comments on photographing darker slabbed coins, have always found it a bit tricky).

 

We are always happy to receive an email or a phone call regarding any aspect of coins so please do feel free to get in touch. Thanks for reading this & stay safe.

 

Rendel & Michael. 

 

Thank you for your comments to the forum. You need to look for the book ‘Numismatic Photography’ by Mark Goodman, this covers virtually every situation. It would set you back about £50, there are copies on Abe books and EBay, but mostly from the USA and Germany. You may also be able to make a digital download.

Almost any decent digital camera and many phones can do the job, it’s all about the focus, lighting and repeatability but as I say, read the book or spend some time experimenting with the macro settings on your camera and some bright directional lighting at an angle across the coin and as close as practicable.

Jerry

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, RIC said:

Hi all,

 

Our attention has been brought to this thread and we wanted to say hello and make a response.

 

Firstly we hope you are safe & well in very challenging times, looking on the positive side, possibly a good chance to enjoy a bit more time on the great hobby that is numismatics.

 

We acknowledge the point about the pictures, this is something which we are looking to improve and have been liaising with a photographer about. We plan to purchase a new camera and have a new lighting set up as well – possibly a mini studio or a ring light? Would welcome any opinions on this as well as what might be a good camera to get specifically for photographing coins.

 

Whilst both of us are experienced numismatists we do sometimes make mistakes. Invariably when a mistake is made one or other of us is very frustrated with ourselves! We try our best and over the years we are proud to have helped many collectors enhance their collections, but yes we do sometimes make errors and we are sorry for this.

 

Specifically with regards the 1882 Penny we purchased this from a well-known source who identified it as F115. Our error was in trusting this and not being thorough enough in checking this. Unfortunately our photos were not clear enough (Again would appreciate any comments on photographing darker slabbed coins, have always found it a bit tricky).

 

We are always happy to receive an email or a phone call regarding any aspect of coins so please do feel free to get in touch. Thanks for reading this & stay safe.

 

Rendel & Michael. 

 

Thank you both for stepping up and responding positively to the criticism.

I'm not a photographic expert, but as I said earlier in the thread, I can get a reasonably clear, light and well focused photograph simply by using an old 2013 Google nexus 7 tablet, in combination with an incandescent bulb/dimmer switch, from an armchair in my spare bedroom. If I can do that with such a Heath Robinson set up, I'm sure you, as full time professional dealers, are able to invest in whatever is necessary to obtain top quality photos. It makes such a profound difference to the way customers view your website (and business generally).

I'd also urge you to familiarise yourselves with the correct Freeman numbers for bronze coinage. When you haven't posted a photo of say a 1908 or 1913 penny against a listing on your website, I'd prefer a definitive response to the question of which Freeman type it is, as opposed to you just e mailing me a dark photo, wrong year, and one of them still in a plastic envelope. I'm afraid that really did come across as sloppy and couldn't care less. Indeed, the Freeman and/or Gouby type should already be on the listing. It can mean the difference between a very common and very rare year variety.

Criticism can be harsh and hurtful - we've all been there at various times - but if justified, then ultimately you can learn from it and vastly improve your game.      

Edited by 1949threepence

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I'd like to echo what has been said both by yourselves and other members here today and hope that now we can all move forward, united in our love of things numismatic.

It is good that you acknowledge shortcomings in your photography; it would also be nice to see some sort of progress in customer relationships. My own bad two experiences with you a few years ago were not so much that you made errors in your identifications (although in one order I did specifically ask you to check the die variety of a shilling and gave you specific identifiers to help you do so, which the resulting wrong coin being sent suggests you didn't bother to do so), it was the total lack of apology when I returned them , and specifically your failing twice to reimburse my postage costs for your mistakes that really upset me. For the sake of a few pounds, you have lost my custom, and have done so to others too, including 1949's . A simple sorry would go a long way...

As the old axiom goes...courtesy of Google

Studies show that a satisfied customer will tell 2-3 people about his experience with your company. A dissatisfied consumer will share their lament with 8-10 people and some will push that number to twenty. ... An unhappy customer will become a loyal consumer if you fix his complaint and do it quickly.

I have said all I am going to say on the matter now, consider lessons learned, and will say no more about it again.

 

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The Ingrams may have many nice coins but to describe the following 1806 gilt penny as "AFDC, die flaw Obv sl marks" £275, is incredible. And that's putting it politely. I think this coin was sold by Spink for not much in the early 2000's as "with a severe gouge and associated scratching" or words to that effect. Which it obviously has. The bottom line is not reassuring words (which may be wonderfully written but cost nothing) but a good recommendation from established or experienced collectors for instance on this forum. Can any experienced forum person give such a recommendation?

1806_penny_7.jpg

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On 3/27/2020 at 11:22 AM, RIC said:

Hi all,

 

Our attention has been brought to this thread and we wanted to say hello and make a response.

 

Firstly we hope you are safe & well in very challenging times, looking on the positive side, possibly a good chance to enjoy a bit more time on the great hobby that is numismatics.

 

We acknowledge the point about the pictures, this is something which we are looking to improve and have been liaising with a photographer about. We plan to purchase a new camera and have a new lighting set up as well – possibly a mini studio or a ring light? Would welcome any opinions on this as well as what might be a good camera to get specifically for photographing coins.

 

Whilst both of us are experienced numismatists we do sometimes make mistakes. Invariably when a mistake is made one or other of us is very frustrated with ourselves! We try our best and over the years we are proud to have helped many collectors enhance their collections, but yes we do sometimes make errors and we are sorry for this.

 

Specifically with regards the 1882 Penny we purchased this from a well-known source who identified it as F115. Our error was in trusting this and not being thorough enough in checking this. Unfortunately our photos were not clear enough (Again would appreciate any comments on photographing darker slabbed coins, have always found it a bit tricky).

 

We are always happy to receive an email or a phone call regarding any aspect of coins so please do feel free to get in touch. Thanks for reading this & stay safe.

 

Rendel & Michael. 

 

your a pair of thieving wankers who done me out of £190 quid , remember, cause i aint forgotten, i hope you enjoyed spending it, tossers 

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Posted (edited)

please anyone just steer clear of these shysters, they are opportunistic slippery slimy operators,  and will cause you nothing but grief as you can see from everyone elses complaints,  they try their luck then blame it on other people, michael  and rendal ingram what did you do with my £190 quid conned from me ?, how many times did i prove the coin you sold me was not as described ? and how many times did i show that they were for sale for a tiny tiny fraction of the price you mugged me off and you ignored it, pair of wankers, i aint forgot that £190 quid you stole form me, and as soon as i said i would pay a visit for my money you called the police like a pair of pussies 

 

INGRAMS ARE NOT EVEN A MEMBER OF THE BNTA AND THEY LOOK DOWN ON THE BTNA LIKE THEY ARE ABOVE EVERYTHING, #

 

ENJOY MY £190 , SO SAD IF YOUR THAT DESPERATE TO RIP PEOPLE OFF, SELLING PROOF COINS AS FDC WHEN THEY HAVE SPOTS ETC AND KNOWING THAT WITH YOUR RETURNS POLICY SOMEONE AINT GONNA BOTHER SENDING IT BACK FOR THE SAKE OF A £20 COIN, 

 

DO YOU PAIR KNOW HOW MUCH UPSET GRIEF AND STRESS YOU CAUSED ME,  that coin i bought was supposed to be the pinnacle of my collection, and you took that from me and turned it into a shitty experience, AND I'M SURE YOU DID VERY WELL OUT OF THE OLYMPIC 50P'S I SENT YOU AND YOU WAS VERY AGGRESSIVE ABOUT ME SENDING THEM, GAVE ME ONE PRICE THEN CHANGED WITH THE COINS IN HAND, SHARP PRACTICE OR WHAT , YOU KEPT PESTERING ME FOR THE COINS THEN WHEN YOU GOT THEM YOU TOOK YOUR TIME,  ALL I CAN SAY IS I AM GLAD YOU STOPPED SENDING ME YOUR BOOK CAUSE I GOT FED UP WITH TEARING IT IN HALF AND SEALING BACK IN YOUR ENVELOPE AND SENDING IT BACK TO YOU WHEN I ASKED SEVERAL TIMES TO STOP SENDING THEM YET YOU CONTINUED

Edited by craigy

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On 3/27/2020 at 5:09 PM, Martinminerva said:

I'd like to echo what has been said both by yourselves and other members here today and hope that now we can all move forward, united in our love of things numismatic.

It is good that you acknowledge shortcomings in your photography; it would also be nice to see some sort of progress in customer relationships. My own bad two experiences with you a few years ago were not so much that you made errors in your identifications (although in one order I did specifically ask you to check the die variety of a shilling and gave you specific identifiers to help you do so, which the resulting wrong coin being sent suggests you didn't bother to do so), it was the total lack of apology when I returned them , and specifically your failing twice to reimburse my postage costs for your mistakes that really upset me. For the sake of a few pounds, you have lost my custom, and have done so to others too, including 1949's . A simple sorry would go a long way...

As the old axiom goes...courtesy of Google

Studies show that a satisfied customer will tell 2-3 people about his experience with your company. A dissatisfied consumer will share their lament with 8-10 people and some will push that number to twenty. ... An unhappy customer will become a loyal consumer if you fix his complaint and do it quickly.

I have said all I am going to say on the matter now, consider lessons learned, and will say no more about it again.

 

and learned not to buy anything from these dodgy dealers, 

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On 3/27/2020 at 4:21 PM, 1949threepence said:

Thank you both for stepping up and responding positively to the criticism.

I'm not a photographic expert, but as I said earlier in the thread, I can get a reasonably clear, light and well focused photograph simply by using an old 2013 Google nexus 7 tablet, in combination with an incandescent bulb/dimmer switch, from an armchair in my spare bedroom. If I can do that with such a Heath Robinson set up, I'm sure you, as full time professional dealers, are able to invest in whatever is necessary to obtain top quality photos. It makes such a profound difference to the way customers view your website (and business generally).

I'd also urge you to familiarise yourselves with the correct Freeman numbers for bronze coinage. When you haven't posted a photo of say a 1908 or 1913 penny against a listing on your website, I'd prefer a definitive response to the question of which Freeman type it is, as opposed to you just e mailing me a dark photo, wrong year, and one of them still in a plastic envelope. I'm afraid that really did come across as sloppy and couldn't care less. Indeed, the Freeman and/or Gouby type should already be on the listing. It can mean the difference between a very common and very rare year variety.

Criticism can be harsh and hurtful - we've all been there at various times - but if justified, then ultimately you can learn from it and vastly improve your game.      

stepping up ? was 3 years ago they had me over, they are still having people over today as we have learned, they have obviously been having people over for years and will continue too, making a big deal about liaising with a photographer, honestly, have you seen the shots people get with a basic iphone, more hot air form the ingrams,  and if so many people on here have had issues with them imagine what they have done to people in the wider community of coin collecting, google was full of bad reviews that seemed to have been removed, the same old complaints, coins as not described, overpriced, 

 

and i am sure anyone on this forum and anyone who joins in future will steer clear of these 2 who are not even members of the BTNA so you have no comebacks, micheal and rendal are ruthless businessmen who act naive when the know exactly what they are doing   

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On 3/27/2020 at 11:22 AM, RIC said:

Hi all,

 

Our attention has been brought to this thread and we wanted to say hello and make a response.

 

Firstly we hope you are safe & well in very challenging times, looking on the positive side, possibly a good chance to enjoy a bit more time on the great hobby that is numismatics.

 

We acknowledge the point about the pictures, this is something which we are looking to improve and have been liaising with a photographer about. We plan to purchase a new camera and have a new lighting set up as well – possibly a mini studio or a ring light? Would welcome any opinions on this as well as what might be a good camera to get specifically for photographing coins.

 

Whilst both of us are experienced numismatists we do sometimes make mistakes. Invariably when a mistake is made one or other of us is very frustrated with ourselves! We try our best and over the years we are proud to have helped many collectors enhance their collections, but yes we do sometimes make errors and we are sorry for this.

 

Specifically with regards the 1882 Penny we purchased this from a well-known source who identified it as F115. Our error was in trusting this and not being thorough enough in checking this. Unfortunately our photos were not clear enough (Again would appreciate any comments on photographing darker slabbed coins, have always found it a bit tricky).

 

We are always happy to receive an email or a phone call regarding any aspect of coins so please do feel free to get in touch. Thanks for reading this & stay safe.

 

Rendel & Michael. 

 

Just back on this point alone, may I suggest you contact Dix Noonan & Webb, after taking a look at the pictures on their website. 

Their photos are not only superb, but can be enlarged to whatever size suits the viewer, without any loss of clarity.

I'm sure your business would increase by many orders of magnitude if you were to follow what they do, as collectors would know exactly what they were attempting to buy. 

I'd also suggest you take a long hard look at your grading, which is a tad generous, and your pricing structure, which is more than a tad steep for sometimes quite mediocre stock.      

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On 3/13/2020 at 10:16 AM, oldcopper said:

You should have said! - I've just put one into DNW - it's ex-Spink auction Sept 2016 and is a nice looking coin, though it has two scratches on the Queen's neck. I don't know whether it's got the divot or not, don't know whether it's observable on the photo.

https://www.spink.com/lot/16006002396

Edit - I can't see it on the photo.

 

Won it earlier today at £180 hammer - very nice. Thank you.  

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3 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

Won it earlier today at £180 hammer - very nice. Thank you.  

My pleasure - it's a very good example of that variety, as I'm sure you spotted. The bright 1861 F33 was originally mine as well, but went in via a dealer.

One seller got a good price for that N/Z - nearly £2K all in. Still, a nice coin.

 

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1 hour ago, oldcopper said:

My pleasure - it's a very good example of that variety, as I'm sure you spotted. The bright 1861 F33 was originally mine as well, but went in via a dealer.

One seller got a good price for that N/Z - nearly £2K all in. Still, a nice coin.

 

Pretty much as good (if not better) than any you're likely to see. Once or two very light marks and some minor scratches on the Queen's neck, barely noticeable even under magnification, and in no way detract from what is a choice specimen. My current F114 is only about GF, so this was a very obvious target for me. They actually don't come up that often. 

Yes the F33 was also very nice. I might have gone for it, but although mine isn't as good, it's not so far below as to have made the lot especially viable to bid for.

The N over sideways N (Z) types remain very popular, and the £1200 hammer for that quality piece, is no surprise whatever.   

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37 minutes ago, 1949threepence said:

Pretty much as good (if not better) than any you're likely to see. Once or two very light marks and some minor scratches on the Queen's neck, barely noticeable even under magnification, and in no way detract from what is a choice specimen. My current F114 is only about GF, so this was a very obvious target for me. They actually don't come up that often. 

Yes the F33 was also very nice. I might have gone for it, but although mine isn't as good, it's not so far below as to have made the lot especially viable to bid for.

The N over sideways N (Z) types remain very popular, and the £1200 hammer for that quality piece, is no surprise whatever.   

The N/Z went for £1400 hammer (>£1800 all in). The recent Bamford/Spink one made £1200, so maybe that was a better deal. Hard to tell, as I didn't see the DNW one in the flesh.

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1 hour ago, oldcopper said:

The N/Z went for £1400 hammer (>£1800 all in). The recent Bamford/Spink one made £1200, so maybe that was a better deal. Hard to tell, as I didn't see the DNW one in the flesh.

Sorry, yes, £1400. As you say >£1800 with buyer's fee added. 

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