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craigy

Peering into the darkness with R Ingram Coins lol

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9 hours ago, mrbadexample said:

Custom is clearly not important to them, is it? :wacko:

It's bizarre isn't it? Given they obviously have a huge stock on their hands, you'd think they'd at least make a better effort with photography, as well as dealing more effectively with customer queries.

I never mentioned the other e mail exchanges. It would appear that Michael Ingram doesn't do any of the photography, since enquiries made on a Friday night result in him replying with a promise that Rendel will do it Monday. But at least he is polite and friendly. Conversely, Rendel is abrupt, doesn't start off an e mail with "Hi" or "Dear (whoever), and his messages are short and terse.....which would be OK if he even bothered to read what you asked for, and reply accordingly. I don't need friendly if people do their jobs competently, but he fails at that too. Initially, they had listed three 1908's, including a slabbed version, and two 1913's, including a slabbed version. They clearly hadn't any idea of the Freeman No's, so Rendel initially sent me two pictures only, of the five requested. They were the slabbed ones. Then when I queried that, he sent me the picture shown above. When I pointed out that the first was a 1903, I received this reply from Michael:-

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RE: RE: RE: RE: 1908 and 1913 pennies you have for sale

Rendel Ingram<info@ringramcoins.com>

25/3/2019 19:02

 

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You are right. His camera broke and he resorted to using his phone, seems like he got very confused. He’ll sort it tomorrow. – I hope!

 

Regards,  Michael Ingram.

 

R.Ingram Coins.

206 Honeysuckle Road,
Bassett,
Southampton,
SO16 3BU,
England (UK).
Tel: 023 8032 4258

 

Explore our website at:

 

 

 

Follow us on Twitter at:

 

I rest my case. 

I did eventually get a "sorry" and a pic of the correct coin, which was a 166.

In fairness and to balance the sheet, I should just point out that I've also actually bought a few very nice coins from them which I've been well satisfied with.

 

 

           

Edited by 1949threepence

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8 hours ago, mrbadexample said:

Custom is clearly not important to them, is it? :wacko:

I bought a few coins from the Ingrams in the early 2010's but then had two bad experiences from them: twice they had mis-described the scarcer varieties I expected to be buying, and ended up sending me normal, common coins. OK, they took them back without any quibble BUT they did not refund my expenses of posting the wrong coins back by signed-for delivery, leaving me a few quid out of pocket for THEIR MISTAKES. Once could have been put down to an error, but twice shows it was deliberate on their part to eke a few more quid out of their customers. Needless to say, I have not ordered again from them in the last 5 years, nor do I ever expect to again. They also massively overgrade and, now, overprice their coins. If you read these posts, Messrs Ingram, perhaps you will understand that business is a two-way process.

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they make me feel angry,  not even members of the bnta, i have almost forgotten what they did to me, and how i was treated,     t$ssers  the pair of them 

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Dealers as long term as they are, should really be expected to have  learned how to take pictures of stock.

I remember a similar situation with Glenn Ogden some years ago, but he may have improved since then. (No he hasn't. Just checked - NO pictures on his website. Sigh.)

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6 hours ago, Peckris 2 said:

Dealers as long term as they are, should really be expected to have  learned how to take pictures of stock.

I remember a similar situation with Glenn Ogden some years ago, but he may have improved since then. (No he hasn't. Just checked - NO pictures on his website. Sigh.)

amazing tot hink not so long ago it was probably the norm to buy coins from a book with no pictures, before modern tech 

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32 minutes ago, craigy said:

amazing tot hink not so long ago it was probably the norm to buy coins from a book with no pictures, before modern tech 

Mostly "on approval for 7 days". That's how Dave Craddock runs his business. No pics, just an e mail list. Handwritten invoice. 

Whatever its limitations, it seems to work well, and I've bought several coins this way from Dave.

ETA: But I should add that Dave is a totally different guy to those two characters at Southampton. For a start the description would have included an accurate grade, the Freeman number (if a bronze pre-decimal) and be very fairly priced. Also amenable to a phone call where he speaks with considerable knowledge. 

Edited by 1949threepence
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I too have bought quite a number of coins from Dave C, with never a problem regarding grade, attribution or price. The Southampton dealer is another matter - my only 'purchase' was a 1902 matt proof maundy set, which rapidly went back.

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Dave runs his business by going to every show and trying to turn the coins over quickly and will only do a list when there is not a show for a couple of weeks.

I would bet if anyone goes to a coin show he will be there and from what i am told seems to get busy when the doors open which i feel is because he is always buying and his prices are fair.

I am not sure ingrams work the same way and maybe just put things on a website and sit and wait for someone to buy something ,i cant take a coin dealer seriously who is grading and trying to sell 1933 pennies.

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10 hours ago, PWA 1967 said:

Dave runs his business by going to every show and trying to turn the coins over quickly and will only do a list when there is not a show for a couple of weeks.

I would bet if anyone goes to a coin show he will be there and from what i am told seems to get busy when the doors open which i feel is because he is always buying and his prices are fair.

I am not sure ingrams work the same way and maybe just put things on a website and sit and wait for someone to buy something ,i cant take a coin dealer seriously who is grading and trying to sell 1933 pennies.

Pete, I think the difference is that although Dave C doesn't do photos, you can trust his description of the coin, which is always correct.

With Ingram & Ingram, you can't rely on the written description, so need a photo. You then can't rely on the photo.  

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15 minutes ago, 1949threepence said:

Pete, I think the difference is that although Dave C doesn't do photos, you can trust his description of the coin, which is always correct.

With Ingram & Ingram, you can't rely on the written description, so need a photo. You then can't rely on the photo.  

i had a couple of coins from the ingrams before they mugged me off, (if they were expensive coins they would have gone back but by the time I messed about and paid postage ) it ended with them calling the police cause I complained in a heated phone call and I said I would drive to Southampton to get my money back,   I even pointed out how much in stock they had and that they were still trying mug me off of for peanuts,   I think a lot of the pictures are dark on purpose to hide flaws that they have not described, 

 

just curios if it is there stock or they are doing the leg work for someone else, was shocked to discover they are not even members of the British numistic trade association, if that counts for anything, 

 

yet people still buy from them so they must be doing something right, the only pleasure I get is ripping the list in half they keep sending out to me after I asked them to stop  and sticking it back in the envelope and putting it back in the post box to them 

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16 minutes ago, craigy said:

i had a couple of coins from the ingrams before they mugged me off, (if they were expensive coins they would have gone back but by the time I messed about and paid postage ) it ended with them calling the police cause I complained in a heated phone call and I said I would drive to Southampton to get my money back,   I even pointed out how much in stock they had and that they were still trying mug me off of for peanuts,   I think a lot of the pictures are dark on purpose to hide flaws that they have not described, 

 

just curios if it is there stock or they are doing the leg work for someone else, was shocked to discover they are not even members of the British numistic trade association, if that counts for anything, 

 

yet people still buy from them so they must be doing something right, the only pleasure I get is ripping the list in half they keep sending out to me after I asked them to stop  and sticking it back in the envelope and putting it back in the post box to them 

What was wrong with the coins, Craigy, and why wouldn't they accept them back?  

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On 3/24/2018 at 12:49 AM, rpeddie said:

but on the same regard, i don't want to oversee the coin, don't blast it white on photoshop

he does it all the time

Edited by azda

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Hi guys, i do buy coins from R Ingram occasionally, and have never had a problem. If the photo is not clear, then i just do not buy the item. Perhaps i have just been lucky. As for overgrading, well i just make my mind up with the picture. 

 

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the 1821 sixpence had a dink on the crown and a 1950 proof penny had a nasty tarnish spot, I didn't even bother as I thought it was my fault for not looking at the pictures in more detail, you tend to trust big dealers,  it was the 53 half crown they wouldn't take back, partly my mess up for buying it and not doing proper research, which is the one they wouldn't take back and ignored all attempts to contact them and lots of evidence that the coin was only worth £20 and then it came to light how much of a mark up they had on coins etc and how rude, nasty and abrupt and the we have your money attitude and we are going to keep it, I now know more than the pair of them in regards to the 53 cameo half crown and have several far better specimens, which I offered them to by for a few 100 quid each which they declined lol , didn't even understand the one which was scarce, I of dei I to space and all that 

 

WAS MY ORIGINAL REASON FOR JOINING THE FORUM   Here

Edited by craigy

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15 hours ago, craigy said:

amazing tot hink not so long ago it was probably the norm to buy coins from a book with no pictures, before modern tech 

That was an era when everyman and his dog didn't think they were coin dealers. its become a minefield

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On 3/29/2019 at 8:27 AM, craigy said:

they make me feel angry,  not even members of the bnta, i have almost forgotten what they did to me, and how i was treated,     t$ssers  the pair of them 

You're right. A list of the members can be seen here 

Their name isn't amongst them. I note you do have to be proposed by two existing members.

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5 minutes ago, 1949threepence said:

You're right. A list of the members can be seen here 

Their name isn't amongst them. I note you do have to be proposed by two existing members.

I thought you had to be earning £80k plus a year to get into the members club

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50 minutes ago, craigy said:

the 1821 sixpence had a dink on the crown and a 1950 proof penny had a nasty tarnish spot, I didn't even bother as I thought it was my fault for not looking at the pictures in more detail, you tend to trust big dealers,  it was the 53 half crown they wouldn't take back, partly my mess up for buying it and not doing proper research, which is the one they wouldn't take back and ignored all attempts to contact them and lots of evidence that the coin was only worth £20 and then it came to light how much of a mark up they had on coins etc and how rude, nasty and abrupt and the we have your money attitude and we are going to keep it, I now know more than the pair of them in regards to the 53 cameo half crown and have several far better specimens, which I offered them to by for a few 100 quid each which they declined lol , didn't even understand the one which was scarce, I of dei I to space and all that 

 

WAS MY ORIGINAL REASON FOR JOINING THE FORUM   Here

Doesn't really inspire confidence that they had to resort to calling the police, rather than treating a dissatisfied customer with some modicum of respect. 

Just looked up his terms and conditions - link to

Apparently items are sent on seven days approval - which kind of runs counter to "add to cart" and pay at exit. So the 7 day approval thing is not well flagged up. I think if I do see anything else that might be of interest, I will e mail and ask for it on approval in accordance with their conditions.     

ETA: I missed this bit at the bottom of the page "we can provide a refund for returned coins" - note: not "we will except for damaged returns":-

 

Quote

 

Returns, refunds and cancellations are as follows:

All items are sent on 7 days approval for UK residents, 10 days for overseas orders. We can provide an exchange, credit note or refund for returned coins. We are willing to accept cancellations before payment has occurred, please send us written confirmation if you would like to cancel any item(s).

 

 

 

Craigy - maybe you should have asked him to call the police and have them meet you at the premises, because it sounds to me as though they were going against their own guidelines in your dispute. Presumably you were within the requisite 7 days and wanted your 50p's back? 

Edited by 1949threepence

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1 hour ago, 1949threepence said:

Pete, I think the difference is that although Dave C doesn't do photos, you can trust his description of the coin, which is always correct.

With Ingram & Ingram, you can't rely on the written description, so need a photo. You then can't rely on the photo.  

I had the good fortune to get to know DaveC at the Midland and see his operation at first hand. So I'd trust his descriptions of coins even sight unseen.

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3 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

Pete, I think the difference is that although Dave C doesn't do photos, you can trust his description of the coin, which is always correct.

With Ingram & Ingram, you can't rely on the written description, so need a photo. You then can't rely on the photo.  

Yes Mike.....Dave would not of had regulars and people buying off a list for over thirty years if the coins were overgraded or wrongly described.

He is one of the really good honest dealers that i have dealt with and helped me fill numerous gaps ,upgrades over the last couple of years.

Mark rassmussen is another who grades honestly and i would buy without a picture , just his description over the phone.

Some Dealers though are living on a different planet IMO and think they do it more as a hobby and not bothered if they sell a coin or not.

The pictures from ingram were spot on as they showed that the coins were not very good and saved you having to return them 😊 

Edited by PWA 1967

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10 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

Doesn't really inspire confidence that they had to resort to calling the police, rather than treating a dissatisfied customer with some modicum of respect. 

Just looked up his terms and conditions - link to

Apparently items are sent on seven days approval - which kind of runs counter to "add to cart" and pay at exit. So the 7 day approval thing is not well flagged up. I think if I do see anything else that might be of interest, I will e mail and ask for it on approval in accordance with their conditions.     

ETA: I missed this bit at the bottom of the page "we can provide a refund for returned coins" - note: not "we will except for damaged returns":-

 

Craigy - maybe you should have asked him to call the police and have them meet you at the premises, because it sounds to me as though they were going against their own guidelines in your dispute. Presumably you were within the requisite 7 days and wanted your 50p's back? 

i was away on a last minute trip when the coin arrived, so was outside the 7 days by 3 days,  which went to nearly 2 weeks by the time they decided to respond, pair of wankers who I will never bother with again, 

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10 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

Presumably you were within the requisite 7 days and wanted your 50p's back

oh and they quoted me one price then offered far less when they had them in hand, and I had sent many pictures of the coins and none were in bad shape, each one in its individual zippy bag then secured as not to move about,  and 3 times I asked them to return them and they ignored my request when they reduced what we agreed, ,winding me up writing about it now,  I understand price on approval but we had an agreement with no mention of them changing it,  

 

so technically they did nothing wrong I spose but not very ethical in my opinion, 

Edited by craigy

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1 hour ago, craigy said:

oh and they quoted me one price then offered far less when they had them in hand, and I had sent many pictures of the coins and none were in bad shape, each one in its individual zippy bag then secured as not to move about,  and 3 times I asked them to return them and they ignored my request when they reduced what we agreed, ,winding me up writing about it now,  I understand price on approval but we had an agreement with no mention of them changing it,  

 

so technically they did nothing wrong I spose but not very ethical in my opinion, 

Hmmm, their actions may have been within the letter of the law, but certainly not in the spirit of it. 

 

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9 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

Hmmm, their actions may have been within the letter of the law, but certainly not in the spirit of it

and as your signature says, buyer beware, and don't deal with toss pots 

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I think they're relying on the fact that people can't see their coins too well. 

There's method to their madness!

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