The 1861 Freeman 19 penny

[1949threepence 3,366]

Unlike some coins originally touted as having >5 examples, this coin never seems to have become any more common, by fresh specimens being discovered. In the October 1984 Freeman auction booklet, the Freeman 19, which was in a lot (No 14), with an F18 and an F20, incredibly, remained unsold at the auction. Although perhaps not incredible at that time.  

Any rate, the one on offer on that occasion was described as "very worn but design discernible, one of two known specimens". Richard has a photo of one on his rarest pennies website, described as "held in a private collection (thought to be unique)" - although if the Freeman catalogue is to be believed, there is at least one more somewhere.

Or has anybody come across others? Just curious as to why no further specimens of an F19 have ever come to light in all these years.  

         

Edited January 17, 2018 by 1949threepence

[terrysoldpennies 691]

Hi Mike . It was Bernie who supplied the photo of the F17 to Richard, so maybe he would know more about this penny.    Terry

[1949threepence 3,366]

37 minutes ago, terrysoldpennies said:

Hi Mike . It was Bernie who supplied the photo of the F17 to Richard, so maybe he would know more about this penny.    Terry

Thanks Terry.

[Mr T 169]

Is the one that didn't sell in the Michael Freeman collection the one at https://rarestpennies.wordpress.com/1861-f19/?

[1949threepence 3,366]

13 minutes ago, Mr T said:

Is the one that didn't sell in the Michael Freeman collection the one at https://rarestpennies.wordpress.com/1861-f19/?

I don't know.

As Terry indicates, maybe Bernie can cast more light on the situation.  

 

[PWA 1967 1,840]

 i may be wrong but sure i heard one was that low grade it was never proven and written off .

[1949threepence 3,366]

5 hours ago, PWA 1967 said:

 i may be wrong but sure i heard one was that low grade it was never proven and written off .

Would be interesting to know. If what you say is the case, Pete, it must be in pretty bad shape.The original F27 is not much more than a washer, but stands verified as 5 + F. 

[PWA 1967 1,840]

39 minutes ago, 1949threepence said:

Would be interesting to know. If what you say is the case, Pete, it must be in pretty bad shape.The original F27 is not much more than a washer, but stands verified as 5 + F. 

Maybe it was proven as not one 

Hope someone can tell you a bit more 

[InforaPenny 21]

I acquired one of the very worn ex-Freeman examples of F-19 in a Croydon Coin auction lot with some other pennies many years ago for a few pounds. The late Laurie Bamford told me that he had obtained this F-19 (?) with other worn pennies from Freeman’s survey collection. He did not believe it was F-19, and I agree… while it is clearly Obverse 2 the reverse appears to be D not F in my opinion. This seems to be confirmed by the apparent position of the final date numeral (only partly visible) that matches that of one of the F-18 (2+D) pennies in my reference collection. I should still have this coin somewhere along with the coin flip with  F-19 (?) written on it by Laurie, but I’m not sure where.

Hope this helps…

Best Regards,

InforaPenny

 

[1949threepence 3,366]

48 minutes ago, InforaPenny said:

I acquired one of the very worn ex-Freeman examples of F-19 in a Croydon Coin auction lot with some other pennies many years ago for a few pounds. The late Laurie Bamford told me that he had obtained this F-19 (?) with other worn pennies from Freeman’s survey collection. He did not believe it was F-19, and I agree… while it is clearly Obverse 2 the reverse appears to be D not F in my opinion. This seems to be confirmed by the apparent position of the final date numeral (only partly visible) that matches that of one of the F-18 (2+D) pennies in my reference collection. I should still have this coin somewhere along with the coin flip with  F-19 (?) written on it by Laurie, but I’m not sure where.

Hope this helps…

Best Regards,

InforaPenny

 

Thanks.That pretty much echoes what Pete said earlier. Maybe there is just the one specimen......

[PWA 1967 1,840]

You can always start looking for one Mike 

[Mr T 169]

14 hours ago, InforaPenny said:

I acquired one of the very worn ex-Freeman examples of F-19 in a Croydon Coin auction lot with some other pennies many years ago for a few pounds. The late Laurie Bamford told me that he had obtained this F-19 (?) with other worn pennies from Freeman’s survey collection. He did not believe it was F-19, and I agree… while it is clearly Obverse 2 the reverse appears to be D not F in my opinion.

Ah, so Freeman misclassified one? I guess the Freeman auction catalogue isn't well-enough illustrated to tell?

[1949threepence 3,366]

12 minutes ago, Mr T said:

Ah, so Freeman misclassified one? I guess the Freeman auction catalogue isn't well-enough illustrated to tell?

It's not. That specific lot isn't pictured.

[1949threepence 3,366]

5 hours ago, PWA 1967 said:

You can always start looking for one Mike 

I'm always looking, Pete