Jump to content
British Coin Forum - Predecimal.com

50 Years of RotographicCoinpublications.com A Rotographic Imprint. Price guide reference book publishers since 1959. Lots of books on coins, banknotes and medals. Please visit and like Coin Publications on Facebook for offers and updates.

Coin Publications on Facebook

   Rotographic    

The current range of books. Click the image above to see them on Amazon (printed and Kindle format). More info on coinpublications.com

predecimal.comPredecimal.com. One of the most popular websites on British pre-decimal coins, with hundreds of coins for sale, advice for beginners and interesting information.

Sign in to follow this  
craigy

Arm and a leg

Recommended Posts

only 1000 sets .. could be interesting, no idea what demand for those sets is, so I guess you'd have to be prepared for the long run with that one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

200th anniversary of Frankenstein... running out of things to commemorate?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Mr T said:

200th anniversary of Frankenstein... running out of things to commemorate?

Indeed. Commemorating Prince George's fifth birthday? But there is no edge inscription. Something like "I can now spell cat" would be quite appropriate. And yes, £610 asking price is frightful. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

£610? You're having a Turkish (bath) Guv! 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Last year's silver set was slightly more expensive!

https://www.royalmint.com/our-coins/ranges/annual-sets/the-2017-united-kingdom-silver-proof-coin-set/

1500 mintage limit but still available.

Then the Royal Mint is issuing all kinds of 'specials' that don't get included in the annual sets.  This year there no doubt will be the four 2018 Beatrix Potter 50 pence designs.  I think there are several RAF £2 coins due and the list goes on.

That 25 pound gold Peter Rabbit coin mentioned in craigy's earlier thread was just one example of limited run coins that I was unaware of!   What else has been produced?   Looks like it is very difficult or maybe impossible to find out...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, sabrejv said:

Last year's silver set was slightly more expensive!

https://www.royalmint.com/our-coins/ranges/annual-sets/the-2017-united-kingdom-silver-proof-coin-set/

1500 mintage limit but still available.

Then the Royal Mint is issuing all kinds of 'specials' that don't get included in the annual sets.  This year there no doubt will be the four 2018 Beatrix Potter 50 pence designs.  I think there are several RAF £2 coins due and the list goes on.

That 25 pound gold Peter Rabbit coin mentioned in craigy's earlier thread was just one example of limited run coins that I was unaware of!   What else has been produced?   Looks like it is very difficult or maybe impossible to find out...

that run was for a private person, wonder if it will show in spinks ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, craigy said:

that run was for a private person, wonder if it will show in spinks ?

I've just got the latest Spink 2018 two part catalogue (late Christmas present to myself) the Decimal Issues part doesn't appear to have the Peter Rabbit 1/4 oz £25 gold coin listed as far as I can tell.

The foreword of the Decimal Issues part the editor Geoff Kitchen does say quote -

"The increase in the size of the catalogue clearly reflects the number of new coins offered by the Mint, but I have personally noted numerous issues that have not been offered to their retail collectors, apparently being especially produced of overseas trade customers.  As they are Coins of England they should be included and I await further information from the Mint - and then further additions to the Catalogue."

Perhaps when previously unknown issues are 'discovered' a note to the editor of Spink's Decimal Issues should be sent, to try and make the list as complete as possible in the future.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, sabrejv said:

I've just got the latest Spink 2018 two part catalogue (late Christmas present to myself) the Decimal Issues part doesn't appear to have the Peter Rabbit 1/4 oz £25 gold coin listed as far as I can tell.

The foreword of the Decimal Issues part the editor Geoff Kitchen does say quote -

"The increase in the size of the catalogue clearly reflects the number of new coins offered by the Mint, but I have personally noted numerous issues that have not been offered to their retail collectors, apparently being especially produced of overseas trade customers.  As they are Coins of England they should be included and I await further information from the Mint - and then further additions to the Catalogue."

Perhaps when previously unknown issues are 'discovered' a note to the editor of Spink's Decimal Issues should be sent, to try and make the list as complete as possible in the future.

but are they coins or just medals ?  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, craigy said:

but are they coins or just medals ?  

A difficult argument, my view if a 'coin' has a value struck on it then it is a coin.  But perhaps they could be considered patterns?

But I can see other problems  - for example is it circulating coinage or not, for example the £20 silver coins since 2013 that are non-circulating according to the Mint but are legal tender.    I think I'm going to have to go back to the Royal Proclamations that have been made quoting the Coinage Act and perhaps use that as the determining factor. 

Maybe  Chris's forthcoming  2018 'Collectors Coins' book on decimal issues will list these limited issues?

I don't know what the answer is - but the lack of official Royal Mint information is disappointing.  It is going to be difficult in the future to know if all the issues have been documented for completeness if nothing else.   These 'private' issues certainly make things more difficult.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, craigy said:

but are they coins or just medals ?  

They're clearly not medals, but I would argue they are not coins in the normal sense either. The Mint exists not merely to strike coins of the realm, as their traditional role, but to survive on their own now as a profit-making commercial organisation. Many of these 'special issues' should be regarded as no more indicative of 'for general use as currency' as those awful commemorative plates were, that were so popular in the 80s and now can't be sold for love or money.

The problem is where we - as collectors - draw the line. Obviously proof sets (which the Mint have been producing as annual sets since the 1970 set) are special strikings of currency coins, and have been struck for centuries. Yes, for collectors and "VIPs", but they could always be set side by side with their currency equivalents. However, since 1983, the Mint has been producing special editions in greater and greater numbers purely to be sold for commercial profit. Some of these were never issued for circulation, such as the Britannias and piedforts, and should they be considered coins? I would say not, but apart from the obvious non-coins like Britannias, it is a grey area. How many people have spent crowns as currency for the past 100 years? Yet they are legal tender, and the cupro-nickel versions in the decimal era have been available from post offices at face value. Yet I'm prepared to bet that few shopkeepers have ever had one pass through their hands.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Peckris said:

They're clearly not medals, but I would argue they are not coins in the normal sense either. The Mint exists not merely to strike coins of the realm, as their traditional role, but to survive on their own now as a profit-making commercial organisation. Many of these 'special issues' should be regarded as no more indicative of 'for general use as currency' as those awful commemorative plates were, that were so popular in the 80s and now can't be sold for love or money.

The problem is where we - as collectors - draw the line. Obviously proof sets (which the Mint have been producing as annual sets since the 1970 set) are special strikings of currency coins, and have been struck for centuries. Yes, for collectors and "VIPs", but they could always be set side by side with their currency equivalents. However, since 1983, the Mint has been producing special editions in greater and greater numbers purely to be sold for commercial profit. Some of these were never issued for circulation, such as the Britannias and piedforts, and should they be considered coins? I would say not, but apart from the obvious non-coins like Britannias, it is a grey area. How many people have spent crowns as currency for the past 100 years? Yet they are legal tender, and the cupro-nickel versions in the decimal era have been available from post offices at face value. Yet I'm prepared to bet that few shopkeepers have ever had one pass through their hands.

 

Yes the term legal tender is rather vague when it comes to the newer batch of coins from the royal mint. On one hand you could use a £100 coin to pay off a fine . But the bank would not accept it and nor could you pay it in to your account. Shopkeepers wouldn't accept either. So really you have a very very expensive 1 ounce of silver which to be brutally honest is worth £15 Just because it has £100 stamped on it. It is basically worthless toot. Could you find an  aesthetic value of £85 . ? I don't think so and they are hardly scarce on the ground. IMO something like that needs a much lower mintage so the coin will hold it's value long term. I see so many of them for sale and nobody wants them even at a £ for £

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would regard something as a coin if it could have been spent when it was issued. E.g., although the 1935 rocking horse crown was not intended for circulation, some were actually circulated. Indeed, I remember having a very worn example when I was a pre teen collector and so it must have been accepted as currency in its days. I define a coin very loosely and would regard something very closely related to a circulating coin as having coin status. Hence, I have no problem in accepting piedforts as coins. I have read somewhere that the raised edge 1935 crown is not technically legal tender but it is similar enough to the incuse edge currency version. 
Patterns are not quite real coins for me and I regard them as just unadopted designs. (But I would love owning them and so they have honorary coin status for me)

But I don't consider something to be a coin simply because it has £100 written on it because it cannot be spent as money. (And I don't want to buy any of them)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Sword said:

I would regard something as a coin if it could have been spent when it was issued. E.g., although the 1935 rocking horse crown was not intended for circulation, some were actually circulated. Indeed, I remember having a very worn example when I was a pre teen collector and so it must have been accepted as currency in its days. I define a coin very loosely and would regard something very closely related to a circulating coin as having coin status. Hence, I have no problem in accepting piedforts as coins. I have read somewhere that the raised edge 1935 crown is not technically legal tender but it is similar enough to the incuse edge currency version. 
Patterns are not quite real coins for me and I regard them as just unadopted designs. (But I would love owning them and so they have honorary coin status for me)

But I don't consider something to be a coin simply because it has £100 written on it because it cannot be spent as money. (And I don't want to buy any of them)

They are unadopted designs, but are equally part of numismatic history alongside the adopted pieces and in my view eminently collectable. Go for it and treat yourself. They are almost invariably cheaper than a currency piece with similar numbers extant, and are usually found in high grade. They add a nice bit of variety to a collection. :)  Prices are a lot less volatile too.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey there the USA mint has been producing coins along these lines for a while - I am pretty sure the royal mint has copied them.

They are suitable as a special high value present or keepsake

I don't think is feasable to buy them every year- and if they are popular they will be produced every year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, copper123 said:

Hey there the USA mint has been producing coins along these lines for a while - I am pretty sure the royal mint has copied them.

They are suitable as a special high value present or keepsake

This I think is the problem. Just as with those commemorative porcelain plates, these issues are trumpeted as 'low issue' and 'investments for the future'. That relies on there being a steady - or increasing - market for them, which just simply isn't the case; people who buy such things for investment purposes are doomed to disappointment. Look at the secondary market for such modern issues : they can be bought at auction for usually less than half of the original issue price - modern proof sets are a clear example of this.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Peckris said:

This I think is the problem. Just as with those commemorative porcelain plates, these issues are trumpeted as 'low issue' and 'investments for the future'. That relies on there being a steady - or increasing - market for them, which just simply isn't the case; people who buy such things for investment purposes are doomed to disappointment. Look at the secondary market for such modern issues : they can be bought at auction for usually less than half of the original issue price - modern proof sets are a clear example of this.

Yes you often see these plates on antique fairs at a pound or two each - they cost £10-£15 when new .

The royal mint in the seventies produced many special issues of coins as an investment , they turned out anything but, of course you are talking a different time but in general see the words "investment piece" and run for the hills , For many years I have just bought what I liked and will carry on that way

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×