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Coinbuyer555

Coin dealers in the UK

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What is it with these 'experts' in the Uk who seem to think their word is all that matters.

Over 30 years of collecting coins and i have had a few nasty surprises from the UK dealers, Mr Simon Willis being the latest one.

I know they all deal between themselves and set up price fixing between themselves, shuffle customers like cattle, lie on eBay, don't really have as much knowledge as they wish they had, but do they HAVE to be so nasty???

A few dealers in the US say the same and put it down to arrogance where the UK dealers think they know everything....well folks YA DON'T...

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Bloody hell.......calm down a bit they are only coins.

I havent a clue why you use the word NASTY :o

You dont need to buy from the UK and just buy them from somewere else.

Maybe your getting worked up about your VIP proof mistake , your comments maybe true (only you know that ) but thats the same with some people selling anything :angry:

Be lucky and just buy in Canada or anywere else you may choose with dealers who are not NASTY.

 

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Yea, what happened? sounds like you had an incident or an argument with one.

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OK - I've seen your other threads and posts now, I see you are upset by being sold a fake coin. 

I bought a couple last year - one was listed as a detecting find and put with some other junk. It was well noticeable and the only reason to but the lot, but it was fake, and I guess there was no quibbling as it was a mixed lot of junk and nothing was claimed as real or fake....  but it was clearly there as bait to sell the rest of the junk. The other one was a fake gold coin. :-( but it wasn't from the UK.  

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10 hours ago, Coinbuyer555 said:

What is it with these 'experts' in the Uk who seem to think their word is all that matters.

Over 30 years of collecting coins and i have had a few nasty surprises from the UK dealers, Mr Simon Willis being the latest one.

I know they all deal between themselves and set up price fixing between themselves, shuffle customers like cattle, lie on eBay, don't really have as much knowledge as they wish they had, but do they HAVE to be so nasty???

A few dealers in the US say the same and put it down to arrogance where the UK dealers think they know everything....well folks YA DON'T...

OK, we appear to have an issue here, so let's debate it.

You appear to have a problem with Simon Willis - that's a specific issue between yourself and him.

'Dealers all deal between themselves'. - they do the world over. Every dealer has a list of customers and coins they require. They are hardly going to say I am not going to buy a coin for you that you want because it comes from another dealer! They usually have a good sense of underpriced coins, and also have to buy to offer a broad range of items when stock is short. i.e they have to buy coins, but other dealers are only a small section of the market place.

'set up price fixing between themselves'. Example? If a coin is common there is no way that the market can possibly be rigged. If it is rare or highly desirable, then the number available is unlikely to exceed one or two in any instance. The only instance I can think where there is some attempt to link coin pricing, is where the coins are slabbed, with a given number equating to a certain price. If people will buy coins unseen based on the slab number, that is a form of price fixing because (leaving aside the ability to resubmit to receive a higher grade), the grade is deemed to be set despite only forming one opinion amongst many. The same can not be said for raw grading whereby it is accepted that opinions differ and so the price for a given grade has more flexibility. If a coin comes from another dealer, then the selling price must inevitably be higher than the purchase price for the new owner to make a profit.

'shuffle customers like cattle'. Not sure where we are going here. I can't think of any dealers who consciously try to move their customers on to the next table. They certainly keep their list of customers to themselves, which is normal for any business. A dealer might tell a good customer where he can get a specific coin, but that is doing someone a favour on the back of past sales.

'lie on eBay'. Don't know as I haven't bought on there for well over a year. I haven't the patience to trawl through the more than 100K British coins listed.

'don't really have as much knowledge as they wish they had, but do they HAVE to be so nasty???' Again, a bit of evidence would help would help if you want to throw stones. We all wish we had more knowledge. Every area has someone who knows more than the next person. Judging by your post on my profile I assume you have included me in this section. For those who haven't looked it reads  'Gosh ain't you a fine example of the nasty arseholes I said populate this forum....negative nelly should be your name......you are certainly no expert in anything except bullshit'. If you would care to elucidate with specifics, I can make a reasoned response. If it was in relation to my reference to the NNC slabs. As 'Centisles' on eBay, he acquired a reputation on both sides of the pond for grading things much higher than anyone else. If it was with regard to the 1911 slabbed by a company neither of us have heard from, then the uplift in price from a PCGS or NGC 65 rating should be enough to cover the cost of slabbing. 

I also note you mentioned trolling on the MP thread. I made the not unreasonable assumption that you too were trolling. Your first 8 or 9 posts promised much, but then on Christmas Eve you managed to populate the entire first page (but no more) of the 'Free for All' forum topics in the space of a few minutes with replies, many comprising a few words with little in the way of punctuation or properly formed sentences. They hinted at sensible replies, but said nothing informative as there was no corroborative evidence or reasoned argument for the statement. A post asking for an Ansell sovereign is ok. You then listed 10 or 11 coins in the 'Items for sale'. For someone with less than 50 posts in total, nearly half of which were the mechanical replies made shortly before followed by listing items for sale, you were following a tried and tested method used by people trying to ingratiate themselves with a view to selling coins via something resembling a pyramid scheme. Overpriced silver slabs are the most popular product in this area. I think our friend Henry was the last person to try this on here.

As I also mentioned, Chris is kind enough to provide this forum FOC. Whilst he has included a For Sale section, he is first and foremost a dealer and publisher, so we don't flood his website with adverts for our own wares. Certainly not with what is virtually an introductory message.

Reasoned debate is always welcome here.

Edited by Rob
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Well Rob i take my hat off to you :)

Just looking at your profile and the comments he left i could not of gone to the trouble of making such a reply.

 

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Nicely done Rob! I am from the United States, but I am on your side of this conversation!

 

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I don't think the coin business is all that different to any other. Over 30 years experience as an auditor taught me that 99% of businesses are above board and try to do the right thing by their customers. Unfortunately, the 1% (in fact, usually a lot less than 1%) tend to get an inordinate amount of publicity, give all the good businesses a bad name and leave a public impression that there is a generalised problem.

I make regular acquisitions of coins. I have auction houses that I trust and know how I wish to deal with and I have dealers that I trust and who have never let me down (including Rob from whom I have made several acquisitions). My disappointments have come mainly from one auction house and because of my own mistakes. I still buy from that auction house and I have worked out how to manage my risk there and I am working diligently on not making mistakes going forward. 

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Gents

I've been on this forum for over 13 years.I think Chris was still in short trousers.i don't appreciate confrontation....I can have lapses but mainly stay reasoned and don't try to upset members.I go on Ipswich Towns site TWTD and they operate a ban hammer.Warned once and then a ban.Seems to work....after conceding 4 goals in 7 minutes I was close yesterday but resisted.(TWTD stands for those were the days)....I think I shall support  Man City next year.

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I mulled over the name 'coinbuyer555' for a while then mentioned him my wife....click...

Some time ago he Neg Feedbacked her on Ebay over a clearly photographed coin that she was selling for me.

The usual clearout. The fault on the coin he moaned about was clearly visible in the picture.

He moaned, we raised our eyebrows, she offered him a refund three times- no reply,

just a negative feedback. She was very upset and we blocked him.

It was like he thought hope altered reality, and what he could see didn't really exist.

We thought at the time that he was just one of those people who like to 'wield power',

and be spiteful when given half a chance.

I've got to the top of my business, and my advice to trainees is this:

 

To raise yourself above others around you, you can go round knocking them down one at a time,

a very laborious process, and you don't look good at the end or made any friends you may well need in the future,

or,

you stand on a chair.

 

I chose the latter. You just keep your head down and work hard, and never stop learning, and keep all colleagues

and rivals on-side and friendly. That works.

 

Basically, if you want to be Somebody, go and become just that.    Slowly.

Pretending you are Somebody from the beginning and thinking you are some sort of God never ever works in the long term.

 

B

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On 1/2/2018 at 2:50 AM, Coinbuyer555 said:

What is it with these 'experts' in the Uk who seem to think their word is all that matters.

Over 30 years of collecting coins and i have had a few nasty surprises from the UK dealers, Mr Simon Willis being the latest one.

I know they all deal between themselves and set up price fixing between themselves, shuffle customers like cattle, lie on eBay, don't really have as much knowledge as they wish they had, but do they HAVE to be so nasty???

A few dealers in the US say the same and put it down to arrogance where the UK dealers think they know everything....well folks YA DON'T...

I've been collecting since I was 12: obviously a lot more in recent years. I can say with absolute honesty, that I have never once come up against a "nasty" or "arrogant" dealer. Maybe I've been lucky. I've not always agreed with their prices or conclusions, but that's a completely different matter. The vast majority are pleasant, helpful, totally genuine and often (usually) enthusiasts themselves. They love to discuss technicalities, often in a very knowledgeable way. Generally you soon get on first name terms with them, once they get to know you, and you them. 

Apart from that, I'm not one to whine if I feel I've been overcharged. I regard it as my fault and just suck it up. Besides which, it's swings and roundabouts.There have been many bargains on the way. So these things even themselves out over time.

I don't know Simon Willis, but will reserve judgement as 1) I've no idea what he's apparently done, you haven't said and 2) I make my own mind up on people.   

I think you're being a tad unreasonable, quite honestly.

 

 

 

     

    

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1 hour ago, 1949threepence said:

I've been collecting since I was 12: obviously a lot more in recent years. I can say with absolute honesty, that I have never once come up against a "nasty" or "arrogant" dealer. Maybe I've been lucky. I've not always agreed with their prices or conclusions, but that's a completely different matter. The vast majority are pleasant, helpful, totally genuine and often (usually) enthusiasts themselves. They love to discuss technicalities, often in a very knowledgeable way. Generally you soon get on first name terms with them, once they get to know you, and you them. 

Apart from that, I'm not one to whine if I feel I've been overcharged. I regard it as my fault and just suck it up. Besides which, it's swings and roundabouts.There have been many bargains on the way. So these things even themselves out over time.

I don't know Simon Willis, but will reserve judgement as 1) I've no idea what he's apparently done, you haven't said and 2) I make my own mind up on people.   

I think you're being a tad unreasonable, quite honestly.

 

 

 

     

    

In 15 years of collecting ,I have never been overcharged for any coin or note that I have bought (many thousands) .I have overpaid plenty of times though.

 

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A subtle but excellent distinction!

i was in a pub, last year I think, and all the beer was unfamiliar to me.

The barman asked what I liked in a beer, and chose me one, and described it perfectly.

I told him that I'd bought many pints in my life, but I'd never been sold one before......!

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On 1/2/2018 at 2:50 AM, Coinbuyer555 said:

What is it with these 'experts' in the Uk who seem to think their word is all that matters.

Over 30 years of collecting coins and i have had a few nasty surprises from the UK dealers, Mr Simon Willis being the latest one.

I know they all deal between themselves and set up price fixing between themselves, shuffle customers like cattle, lie on eBay, don't really have as much knowledge as they wish they had, but do they HAVE to be so nasty???

A few dealers in the US say the same and put it down to arrogance where the UK dealers think they know everything....well folks YA DON'T...

I've been collecting since I was 12: obviously a lot more in recent years. I can say with absolute honesty, that I have never once come up against a "nasty" or "arrogant" dealer. Maybe I've been lucky. I've not always agreed with their prices or conclusions, but that's a completely different matter. The vast majority are pleasant, helpful, totally genuine and often (usually) enthusiasts themselves. They love to discuss technicalities, often in a very knowledgeable way. Generally you soon get on first name terms with them, once they get to know you, and you them. 

Apart from that, I'm not one to whine if I feel I've been overcharged. ripped off. I regard it as my fault and just suck it up. Besides which, it's swings and roundabouts.There have been many bargains on the way. So these things even themselves out over time.

I don't know Simon Willis, but will reserve judgement as 1) I've no idea what he's apparently done, you haven't said and 2) I make my own mind up on people.   

I think you're being a tad unreasonable, quite honestly.

 

 

 

     

    

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While the coin "business" is not much different to many others - the main problem is turning stock over fast enough to feed yourself and family and give yourself a reasonable income.

Remember coins dont turn over at the rate that meat does in a butchers shop , they are dead money for the entire length of time they are in a dealers tray.

This is why your more likely to get offers on a farthing collection of queen victoria  and NOT George V  (All dealers suffer these coins sticking in their trays)

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