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zookeeperz

1860 farthing mule?

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Hi good people. Here are two farthings the dark one is the beaded border farthing but supposedly so is the light one on the left but it doesn't have that same rock formation to the left of the lighthouse and the broach is lower set  is it the mule? some of the teeth resemble teeth but most look like beaded dots. Kind of confusing?

 

1860c-tile.jpg

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34 minutes ago, zookeeperz said:

Hi good people. Here are two farthings the dark one is the beaded border farthing but supposedly so is the light one on the left but it doesn't have that same rock formation to the left of the lighthouse and the broach is lower set  is it the mule? some of the teeth resemble teeth but most look like beaded dots. Kind of confusing?

 

1860c-tile.jpg

From these images, on my cell phone, they BOTH appear to be round beads on both obverse and reverse, F-496.

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4 minutes ago, Bronze & Copper Collector said:

From these images, on my cell phone, they BOTH appear to be round beads on both obverse and reverse, F-496.

Why is the lighthouse on the left twice as wide at the top? the mouths are different the one on the right her lips curl downward?

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Comparing photos for varieties is difficult, and damn near impossible if the direction of illumination is significantly different as in your two

David

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2 minutes ago, davidrj said:

Comparing photos for varieties is difficult, and damn near impossible if the direction of illumination is significantly different as in your two

David

yes I was just thinking that. I'll just put it down to lighting there are enough markers to confirm both are beaded . Thank you gents ;)

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Don't worry Zoo....even PCGS get these mixed up.

Edited by Peter

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5 minutes ago, Peter said:

Don't worry Zoo....even PCGS get theses mixed up.

Not really.....

They just make up new varieties rather than admit they made a mistake.....

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Just now, Bronze & Copper Collector said:

Not really.....

They just make up new varieties rather than admit they made a mistake.....

 

Yes B&C you are right. Remember the time you bought a UNC Mule, only to determine it was not a mule, and returned it? After that, the grading company tried to explain it away as a "partial" mule.......LOL. :D

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8 minutes ago, RLC35 said:

 

Yes B&C you are right. Remember the time you bought a UNC Mule, only to determine it was not a mule, and returned it? After that, the grading company tried to explain it away as a "partial" mule.......LOL. :D

Precisely to what I was referring... (How could I forget.)

 

Edited by Bronze & Copper Collector
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3 hours ago, Bronze & Copper Collector said:

Precisely to what I was referring... (How could I forget.)

 

I have seen some of those slabbed and even from this far away you would have to be blind not to notice both sides are a toothed border. I only noticed as I was looking on the census to see how many were graded and what the top grade was. I just think with both the US TPG's they tend to ignore any kind of variety on British coins. this being a prime example. But I will not moan it was my gain this time around :)


 

NGCms64-vert.jpg

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I don't think they ignore it so much as take the approach that something about right is ok. To provide evidence for this statement, the one below was previously slabbed by NGC as a P1983. Obviously by adhering to Peck numbers only and ignoring all other references, they will always be fighting an uphill battle to get it right. But I think they can get away with it because they are targeting a segment of the market that is generally unquestioning. 

img314.jpg

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2 hours ago, zookeeperz said:

I have seen some of those slabbed and even from this far away you would have to be blind not to notice both sides are a toothed border. I only noticed as I was looking on the census to see how many were graded and what the top grade was. I just think with both the US TPG's they tend to ignore any kind of variety on British coins. this being a prime example. But I will not moan it was my gain this time around :)


 

NGCms64-vert.jpg

 

I had the same issue Zooey. I sent in a F192A Penny (1922/27) with full documentation, and it came back a F192 Penny...and they lost my documentation!They graded it ok on grade (VF I think), but they took a $4,000 coin and turned it into a $50 coin! :o

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47 minutes ago, RLC35 said:

 

I had the same issue Zooey. I sent in a F192A Penny (1922/27) with full documentation, and it came back a F192 Penny...and they lost my documentation!They graded it ok on grade (VF I think), but they took a $4,000 coin and turned it into a $50 coin! :o

That's bad I would of let rip. I guess you had to crack it back open?

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1 hour ago, Rob said:

I don't think they ignore it so much as take the approach that something about right is ok. To provide evidence for this statement, the one below was previously slabbed by NGC as a P1983. Obviously by adhering to Peck numbers only and ignoring all other references, they will always be fighting an uphill battle to get it right. But I think they can get away with it because they are targeting a segment of the market that is generally unquestioning. 

img314.jpg

Wow that is right up my street :)

Very very nice Rob. Lock it away I am thinking of becoming a cat burglar  :D:ph34r:

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2 hours ago, zookeeperz said:

That's bad I would of let rip. I guess you had to crack it back open?

I haven't cracked it open, but at some point I will, when I get ready to sell it. 

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1 hour ago, RLC35 said:

I haven't cracked it open, but at some point I will, when I get ready to sell it. 

Better make sure it is properly identified somehow now, just in case. So you or someone else doesn't forget what it really is.......

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20 minutes ago, Bronze & Copper Collector said:

Better make sure it is properly identified somehow now, just in case. So you or someone else doesn't forget what it really is.......

Already done, but good advice! :rolleyes:

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On ‎27‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 10:01 PM, RLC35 said:

 

I had the same issue Zooey. I sent in a F192A Penny (1922/27) with full documentation, and it came back a F192 Penny...and they lost my documentation!They graded it ok on grade (VF I think), but they took a $4,000 coin and turned it into a $50 coin! :o

Yep they did that with me too on an 1860 Mule Freeman 9 Penny ...came back as an ordinary F10 ...which I still have btw if anyone wants to buy it. 

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Looking at the original Farthings, the reverses - one is clearly not the listed A or B, given the lighthouse size, Ship standard etc?

My freeman only lists 2, Colins site only lists 2 (aboutfarthings). Am I missing something please?

Edited by Unwilling Numismatist

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Without the coins being lit from the same direction, it would be difficult if not near impossible to confirm a difference, it is amazing what difference lighting can have on the appearance of a coin.

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Agreed Colin, but on closer inspection of Zoo's images above, it seems like there is some difference which isn't light related. I used my best crayon skills to highlight a couple of areas :ph34r:

Lighthouse, rocks and Ship standard are a few of teh more obvious, so I chopped down the image to a more presentable size.

for_zoo.jpg

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The whole perspective of the coin on the left is distorted by the lens and equipment used compared to the right, we are not comparing like for like and I personally would not draw any conclusions .

Jerry

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