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Croggy

Unusual pound coin?

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Hello All

I have just come across a new pound coin (2016) which appears to be quite unusual and having searched around on the internet, I don't seem to be able to find any other mention of other similar coins.

The first thing I noticed was that the outer ring is a distinctly different colour to other pound coins. It is more of  bronze/copper colour, rather than the usual gold. Also, the coin seems to be slightly misaligned, with the Queen's crown overlapping very slightly into the outer ring.

I have attached a photo of it along with another pound coin for comparison. The coin in question is the one on the left.

Please could you take a look and let me know if you have any thoughts or comments?

Many thanks in advance.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

P1010761 (2).jpg

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1 hour ago, Croggy said:

Hello All

I have just come across a new pound coin (2016) which appears to be quite unusual and having searched around on the internet, I don't seem to be able to find any other mention of other similar coins.

The first thing I noticed was that the outer ring is a distinctly different colour to other pound coins. It is more of  bronze/copper colour, rather than the usual gold. Also, the coin seems to be slightly misaligned, with the Queen's crown overlapping very slightly into the outer ring.

I have attached a photo of it along with another pound coin for comparison. The coin in question is the one on the left.

Please could you take a look and let me know if you have any thoughts or comments?

Many thanks in advance.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

P1010761 (2).jpg

Check both coins and see if the hologram appears in both the shaded shields under the queen's neck it should change in the light from a 1 to a £ sign. If it doesn't it is probably a knock off. Unless they used to designs already for 2016 coin . One with a stern face and the other after someone spiked her tea with some happy pills? Definitely two different busts and I assume we only have one bi-metallic £1?

Edited by zookeeperz

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Thanks for your replies.

Unwilling Numismatist - I have attached a photo of the reverse

Zookeeper - I only put the right hand coin in the photo for comparison. As far as I know, there is nothing unusual about it. The photo might be a little misleading, as I notice it is a little distorted towards both sides. I have checked the hologram as you suggested and it appears to be fine (both the 1 and £ appear when looking at different angles).

Thanks

Croggy

P1010767 (1).jpg

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just a variation in the plating i guess, its certainly not a fake

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There's a myriad of 'varieties' of the new £1 coins, too many to be deliberate design changes. More likely many of them arise from issues concerning the striking of 12 sided coins. I'm just finishing an article for Coin News on my very modest study of the new coin, together with a summary of the genuine varieties and also those that have been deliberately 'manufactured' by the unscrupulous for sale on eBay.

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18 hours ago, craigy said:

just a variation in the plating i guess, its certainly not a fake

No, I don't think it's fake, but the photograph doesn't actually do justice to how different the colour is to a "normal" pound

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17 hours ago, DaveG38 said:

There's a myriad of 'varieties' of the new £1 coins, too many to be deliberate design changes. More likely many of them arise from issues concerning the striking of 12 sided coins. I'm just finishing an article for Coin News on my very modest study of the new coin, together with a summary of the genuine varieties and also those that have been deliberately 'manufactured' by the unscrupulous for sale on eBay.

Thanks for that information. I will definitely be interested in reading your article. As I said to craigy, the photograph doesn't really reflect how different the colour is, which is really obvious to anyone, as soon as they look at it.

Edited by Croggy

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Guest

I have seen many of these I am not sure but maybe the metal composition is liable to rust? I think this because one I found had been outside for a long time on a rainy night. 

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On 01/11/2017 at 10:41 PM, DaveG38 said:

There's a myriad of 'varieties' of the new £1 coins, too many to be deliberate design changes. More likely many of them arise from issues concerning the striking of 12 sided coins. I'm just finishing an article for Coin News on my very modest study of the new coin, together with a summary of the genuine varieties and also those that have been deliberately 'manufactured' by the unscrupulous for sale on eBay.

I went to the bank the other day and just for fits and giggles i changed up £50 in £1 coins took them home and had a butchers at them. Oh my it must be the worse coin ever struck (for errors or design faults) half of the exhibited unusual flaws like extra metal which seems to have plagued all the decimal coins post 2000 . missing designs . the most common were the difference in where the bottom of the truncation meets the hologram box and at the tip of the tiara where it intersects the brass outer rim

 

2017poundobvc2-horz.jpg

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2 hours ago, zookeeperz said:

I went to the bank the other day and just for fits and giggles i changed up £50 in £1 coins took them home and had a butchers at them. Oh my it must be the worse coin ever struck (for errors or design faults) half of the exhibited unusual flaws like extra metal which seems to have plagued all the decimal coins post 2000 . missing designs . the most common were the difference in where the bottom of the truncation meets the hologram box and at the tip of the tiara where it intersects the brass outer rim

 

2017poundobvc2-horz.jpg

For further details see my upcoming articles in Coin News. Not sure when they will appear but sometime soon.

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I have found a few "thick rim" ones, someone on a facebook forum found one with the edge milling UNDER the hologram.

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its just variation of tolerances with mass production, nothing else

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4 hours ago, craigy said:

its just variation of tolerances with mass production, nothing else

That's probably the generic explanation, but the size of the variation and the sheer numbers suggests its a bit more complex than that. For example, the mintage of the 1967 penny was around 600 million or so, and with the exception of a few minor varieties concerned with the drapery and the helmet, they are remarkably consistent in terms of the quality of the strike. Fast forward to 2016, when the new pound coins were produced in about the same numbers, and the consistency of the strike appears to be significantly poorer if tolerance is the only explanation for the differences. Without giving away too much concerning my article for coin news, I can say that I analysed just 40 coins dated 2016, and believe it or not, all 40 were different, which is remarkable. The differences are sufficiently clear cut that in any other series of coins they would be regarded as varieties. Indeed, in some pre-decimal coins, I would suggest that the accepted varieties show a much smaller difference than those for the new pound coin.

The issue is whether these differences are explained purely by machine tolerances or whether there are genuine die varieties mixed in, plus whether striking a 12 sided coin introduced further tolerance issues, especially given the bi-metallic nature of the coin. I don't have an explanation, but I'm hoping my articles generate some interest and throw up some suggestions.

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On 12/1/2017 at 1:26 PM, DaveG38 said:

That's probably the generic explanation, but the size of the variation and the sheer numbers suggests its a bit more complex than that. For example, the mintage of the 1967 penny was around 600 million or so, and with the exception of a few minor varieties concerned with the drapery and the helmet, they are remarkably consistent in terms of the quality of the strike. Fast forward to 2016, when the new pound coins were produced in about the same numbers, and the consistency of the strike appears to be significantly poorer if tolerance is the only explanation for the differences. Without giving away too much concerning my article for coin news, I can say that I analysed just 40 coins dated 2016, and believe it or not, all 40 were different, which is remarkable. The differences are sufficiently clear cut that in any other series of coins they would be regarded as varieties. Indeed, in some pre-decimal coins, I would suggest that the accepted varieties show a much smaller difference than those for the new pound coin.

The issue is whether these differences are explained purely by machine tolerances or whether there are genuine die varieties mixed in, plus whether striking a 12 sided coin introduced further tolerance issues, especially given the bi-metallic nature of the coin. I don't have an explanation, but I'm hoping my articles generate some interest and throw up some suggestions.

any idea of how many die pairs used in the coins you observed

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1 hour ago, craigy said:

any idea of how many die pairs used in the coins you observed

No, the sample was too small and the difficulty was in trying to figure out which obverse and reverse types existed as a result of different dies as opposed to consistency issues with striking 12 sided bimetallic coins. It would take a much greater sample to establish what is going on.  

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Could it be that due to the inherent problems with striking b- metal coins and now a 12 sided one  they may have broken dies or used more of them than they thought they would . Also if something was causing a problem they could of slightly altered the design to see if it had the desired effect. Every pound coin I have has something wrong with it. Be it a design flaw or extra metal.

Edited by zookeeperz

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On 11/1/2017 at 10:41 PM, DaveG38 said:

There's a myriad of 'varieties' of the new £1 coins, too many to be deliberate design changes. More likely many of them arise from issues concerning the striking of 12 sided coins. I'm just finishing an article for Coin News on my very modest study of the new coin, together with a summary of the genuine varieties and also those that have been deliberately 'manufactured' by the unscrupulous for sale on eBay.

Would be very interested in seeing your article Dave. Have found a few unusual features myself. I no longer have a subscription to Coin News. Could you give me a shout when its published. Thanks :)

 

Edited by bhx7

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2 hours ago, bhx7 said:

Would be very interested in seeing your article Dave. Have found a few unusual features myself. I no longer have a subscription to Coin News. Could you give me a shout when its published. Thanks :)

 

OK, if I get to know in advance. The article(s) were submitted a couple of weeks ago, and are due to be published as two separate pieces due to their length. I'm not sure about the lead times for publication, but I'm guessing the first part won't appear until at least February, with maybe the second in March.

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By any chance, does anyone know if they will release commemorative £1 bi-metalic coins. :rolleyes:

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2 minutes ago, thazz said:

By any chance, does anyone know if they will release commemorative £1 bi-metalic coins. :rolleyes:

:(

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Could it just be toning due to atmospheric conditions of storage? Coins can tone differently if kept in different places, no?

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I have an a few uncirculated puddle duck 50ps. The one that was left on the side has toning on it now and the ones in kept in packets are still normal colour. 

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