Building the library

[Jester 38]

As I mention in my signature, one of the coins I'm working to collect is the Sixpence from 1838-1910.  While I've recently purchased The English Silver Coinage from 1649 and British Silver Coins, I was hoping a more seasoned Sixpence collector or just a long-time collector in general would let me know if there was a book/guide specifically geared towards Sixpences (or at least as a major theme in the tome).

Another quick question that's been bugging me since starting on this journey.  Let me give an example...the 1904 and 1905 Edward VII Sixpences are Rare and Scarce respectively.  OK, I can verify that in multiple sources...but WHY?  The 1905 Edward VII Half Crown is rare in high grade.  OK, I can see that through Forums and dealer availability...but WHY?  I tried every Google search I could think of to learn more about why the 1904 and 1905 EVII 6Ps are hard to come by and came up with nothing.  Is this just knowledge you'll pick up over time?  Is the explanation found more in history versus numismatics?

My goal is to not only put together an impressive collection but to also become a more educated, informed collector.  Any feedback/recommendations is greatly appreciated.  Thanks all!

[Rob 3,001]

The number of coins minted is pretty much a function of the orders placed by the clearing banks, with the first year of a reign usually oversupplied as this is not so easy to anticipate. If the banks order £100K worth of 50p pieces, the RM will make them. There is no predetermined formula, just a case of good old supply and demand.

[argentumandcoins 70]

Rob has covered the Ed VII silver question.

Re the reference books there is nothing in particular for any of the milled series issues that is relevant only to one denomination.

The general books that will help you are ESC (recently reworked by Maurice Bull), Davies (silver coinage since 1816 and supplied by Rob) and then any specific sixpence collection auction catalogues (most recent being the Alfred Bole collection).

[Jester 38]

Thank you both for taking the time to reply.  I'll reach out to DNW and see if they have any hard copy catalogues from the Bole auctions back in 2010 - 2011.  Thanks once again for sharing your knowledge!

[Rob 3,001]

4 minutes ago, Jester said:

Thank you both for taking the time to reply.  I'll reach out to DNW and see if they have any hard copy catalogues from the Bole auctions back in 2010 - 2011.  Thanks once again for sharing your knowledge!

I've got Bole 1 -5 here, but they haven't been listed yet. PM me if you have no joy.

[Rob 3,001]

And I've found a copy of part 6 of 5 - the lots that missed the sale were included at a later date.

[Descartes 148]

On 10/17/2017 at 6:18 AM, Jester said:

As I mention in my signature, one of the coins I'm working to collect is the Sixpence from 1838-1910.  While I've recently purchased The English Silver Coinage from 1649 and British Silver Coins, I was hoping a more seasoned Sixpence collector or just a long-time collector in general would let me know if there was a book/guide specifically geared towards Sixpences (or at least as a major theme in the tome).

Another quick question that's been bugging me since starting on this journey.  Let me give an example...the 1904 and 1905 Edward VII Sixpences are Rare and Scarce respectively.  OK, I can verify that in multiple sources...but WHY?  The 1905 Edward VII Half Crown is rare in high grade.  OK, I can see that through Forums and dealer availability...but WHY?  I tried every Google search I could think of to learn more about why the 1904 and 1905 EVII 6Ps are hard to come by and came up with nothing.  Is this just knowledge you'll pick up over time?  Is the explanation found more in history versus numismatics?

My goal is to not only put together an impressive collection but to also become a more educated, informed collector.  Any feedback/recommendations is greatly appreciated.  Thanks all!

I am attempting something similar with sixpences. Thought this might be useful for you:

Date Mintage
1838 - 1,607,760
1839 - 3,310,560
1840 - 2,098,800
1841 - 1,386,000
1842 - 601,920
1843 - 3,160,080
1844 - 3,975,840
1845 - 3,714,480
1846 - 4,268,880
1848 - 586,080
1850 - 498,960
1851 - 2,288,107
1852 - 904,586
1853 - 3,837,930
1854 - 840,116
1855 - 1,129,084
1856 - 2,779,920
1857 - 2,233,440
1858 - 1,932,480
1859 - 4,688,640
1860 - 1,100,880
1862 - 990,000
1863 - 491,040
1864 - 4,253,040
1865 - 1,631,520
1866 - 5,140,080
1867 - 1,362,240
1868 - 1,069,200
1869 - 388,080
1870 - 479,613
1871 - 3,662,684
1872 - 3,382,048
1873 - 4,594,733
1874 - 4,225,726
1875 - 3,256,545
1876 - 841,435
1877 - 4,066,486
1878 - 2,624,525
1879 - 3,326,313
1880 - 3,892,501
1881 - 6,239,447
1882 - 759,809
1883 - 4,986,558
1884 - 3,422,565
1885 - 4,652,771
1886 - 2,728,249
1887 - 3,675,607
1888 - 4,197,698
1889 - 8,738,928
1890 - 9,386,955
1891 - 7,022,734
1892 - 6,245,746
1893 - 7,350,619
1894 - 3,467,704
1895 - 7,024,631
1896 - 6,651,699
1897 - 5,031,498
1898 - 5,914,100
1899 - 7,996,804
1900 - 8,984,354
1901 - 5,108,757

 

SIXPENCE

The die number is to be found just above the date on the reverse.

1864: 1, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 17, 18, 19, 20, 22, 23, 24, 26, 27, 28, 29, 31, 33, 34, 36, 37, 38, 41, 58
1865: 1, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 21, 22, 24, 32
1866: none, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 13, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 36, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 51, 54, 55, 56, 58, 59
1867: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 23
1868: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 9, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15
1869: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9, 10, 11, 12, 14, 15, 16, 17
1870: 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, 19
1871: none, 1, 2, 5, 6, 7, 10, 11, 12, 13, 15, 16, 17, 18, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 29, 31, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 41, 42, 43, 47, 50, 52, 53
1872: 3, 4, 5, 8, 11, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 26, 27, 28, 29, 31, 32, 33, 34, 37, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 48, 51, 52, 57, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 61, 62, 67, 69, 70, 71, 72, 74
1873: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 24, 26, 29, 31, 35, 36, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 47, 48, 49, 51, 52, 53, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 67, 73, 74, 75, 76, 79, 81, 82, 85, 87, 88, 90, 91, 92, 93, 97, 106, 115, 116, 117, 118, 120, 121, 124
1874: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 18, 19, 20, 21, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 31, 32, 34, 35, 37, 40, 41, 42, 46, 48, 50, 51, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 59, 60
1875: 1, 2, 5, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 18, 21, 27, 30, 32, 33, 35, 36, 46, 51, 52, 53, 54, 57, 58, 59, 60, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 78, 84, 88
1876: 1, 2, 5, 6, 7, 8, 11, 12, 13, 18, 19, 20, 22, 23, 29
1877: none, 1, 2, 4, 5, 8, 11, 13, 14, 16, 18, 20, 22, 24, 25, 27, 29, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35
1878: 1, 3, 4, 5, 6(DRITANNIAR), 7, 8, 9, 11, 12, 16, 20, 21, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 32, 37, 40, 43, 45, 47, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 55, 56, 57, 59, 63, 65, 70
1879: none, 8, 9, 12, 13, 14, 15, 21

[Jester 38]

On 10/18/2017 at 6:56 PM, Rob said:

And I've found a copy of part 6 of 5 - the lots that missed the sale were included at a later date.

Corresponded with DNW, unfortunately they do not archive hard copies of past auctions. I can imagine the space needed to do so but I assumed for some of their more significant auctions they might.

I've searched eBay but no luck there either. I did find the auction results online, some with the photos. All I could do was shake my head at some of the prices realized thinking about what those same coins would go for today.

I'd love to obtain a hard copy. Are there dealers known for selling old auction guides from the major houses? 

[PWA 1967 1,841]

Yes Rob who has posted and mentioned sending him a message....rpcoins

[Coinery 926]

On 17/10/2017 at 2:04 PM, Rob said:

I've got Bole 1 -5 here, but they haven't been listed yet. PM me if you have no joy.

@Jester wakey, wakey!

Edited October 20, 2017 by Coinery

[Jester 38]

Lol, I know...pretty boneheaded. I was preoccupied with the auction last night both before and after; I was pretty amped up. I really wanted to pick up those two early Victoria sixpences and there were a lot of potential bidders tracking the sales (see "My Latest Acquisition").

I'm better today...promise 

[PWA 1967 1,841]

Your not that much better Jester your a hundred years out on both 

[1949threepence 3,366]

On 10/17/2017 at 4:18 AM, Jester said:

As I mention in my signature, one of the coins I'm working to collect is the Sixpence from 1838-1910.  While I've recently purchased The English Silver Coinage from 1649 and British Silver Coins, I was hoping a more seasoned Sixpence collector or just a long-time collector in general would let me know if there was a book/guide specifically geared towards Sixpences (or at least as a major theme in the tome).

Another quick question that's been bugging me since starting on this journey.  Let me give an example...the 1904 and 1905 Edward VII Sixpences are Rare and Scarce respectively.  OK, I can verify that in multiple sources...but WHY?  The 1905 Edward VII Half Crown is rare in high grade.  OK, I can see that through Forums and dealer availability...but WHY?  I tried every Google search I could think of to learn more about why the 1904 and 1905 EVII 6Ps are hard to come by and came up with nothing.  Is this just knowledge you'll pick up over time?  Is the explanation found more in history versus numismatics?

My goal is to not only put together an impressive collection but to also become a more educated, informed collector.  Any feedback/recommendations is greatly appreciated.  Thanks all!

The 1905 half crown is very easy to explain - low mintage, 166,008 only. In fact 1903 (274,840) and 1904 (709,6520 are also low mintage, and the respective values of all three linked (accordingly) with their mintages.

The sixpence, to be honest, is not so obvious. I'll admit it's not my area of expertise, but at first glance, the mintages do not suggest unusual rarity. The Edward VII sixpence mintages are:-

1902: 6,367,378 

1902: (matt proof) 15,123

1903: 5,410,096

1904: 4,487,098

1905: 4,235,556

1906: 7,641,146

1907: 8,733,673

1908: 6,739,491

1909: 6,584,017

1910: 12,490,724

Yet the 1904, especially, commands a high price, as does the 1908, which is higher in value than the 1905 you mention.

Don't know. Obviously there must be a logical reason, but not sure what it is. It's possible that many of the coins attributed to 1904, for example, are actually dated 1903, but I don't think there would be any easy way of determining whether that was ever the case. Indeed, it may well not be.

ETA: According to David Groom's book "The Identification of British 20th Century Silver coin varieties" (page 20), there aren't even any distinct varieties for this date run.  

   

Edited October 20, 2017 by 1949threepence

[Peckris 579]

On 17 October 2017 at 4:18 AM, Jester said:

Another quick question that's been bugging me since starting on this journey.  Let me give an example...the 1904 and 1905 Edward VII Sixpences are Rare and Scarce respectively.  OK, I can verify that in multiple sources...but WHY?  The 1905 Edward VII Half Crown is rare in high grade.  OK, I can see that through Forums and dealer availability...but WHY?  I tried every Google search I could think of to learn more about why the 1904 and 1905 EVII 6Ps are hard to come by and came up with nothing.

They're not, not really. They're the scarcest of the Ed VII sixpences but they're not hard to come by compared to halfcrowns. The 1905 gains a small premium by a reputational 'drip down' effect of that date. In average condition they're not even scarce. Sometimes you have to factor in things that aren't directly connected to a particular issue, such as 1905 for silver.