Jump to content
British Coin Forum - Predecimal.com

50 Years of RotographicCoinpublications.com A Rotographic Imprint. Price guide reference book publishers since 1959. Lots of books on coins, banknotes and medals. Please visit and like Coin Publications on Facebook for offers and updates.

Coin Publications on Facebook

   Rotographic    

The current range of books. Click the image above to see them on Amazon (printed and Kindle format). More info on coinpublications.com

predecimal.comPredecimal.com. One of the most popular websites on British pre-decimal coins, with hundreds of coins for sale, advice for beginners and interesting information.

Sign in to follow this  
Coinery

Henry III AU50

Recommended Posts

This slabbing thing still amazes me!  Yes, weak strike, soft strike, clogged devices...yet, with even all that taken into consideration, there is still nothing about even the best of the remaining devices that could warrant the grade! 

152705034251

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Should be A(lmost) U(nreadable) 15ish. There's no way that 50% of the legend is illegible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Coinery said:

This slabbing thing still amazes me!  Yes, weak strike, soft strike, clogged devices...yet, with even all that taken into consideration, there is still nothing about even the best of the remaining devices that could warrant the grade! 

152705034251

 

Just goes to show that if you buy slabbed coins you should leave your eyes (and brain) at the door on the way into the shop. AU50 must mean less than VF on PCGS does it? I'm no expert on that issue but if I was grading on appearance it would come in around Fine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, even a claim of GF would have me returning to look at it over and over, before finally saying (at best) "mmm, ok, in some people's eyes...maybe...but there's no way I'd be parting with a penny above recent sales documented at fine grade for the variety."

What a shocker! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've seen slightly different comparisons, but here is one:

The table below shows how one scale relates to another based on our grading using standard terms, and our experience and observations of the numerical scales. It should be noted that the prefixes accompanying the US grades typically imply a higher grade than the UK grading terms (e.g. AU = VF-EF). 

Raw grade    US grade(Sheldon)    CGS grade
Choice UNC    MS66 - MS70         90-100
UNC                MS64 - MS65          82-90
About UNC     MS62 - MS63           80
GEF                MS60 - MS61           75-78
EF                   AU58 - MS60           65-70
NEF                AU55                        55-60
GVF                AU53                        45-50
VF                  AU50                         40
NVF                EF45                         35
GF                  VF35 - EF40             25-30
F                    VF20 - VF30              20

But: I have also seen some British auctions that follow the US scale more than UK. Australia is another story.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The cost of slabbing that plus postage probably exceeds its value. I'd pay no more than £20-25 for that outside that holder. The mind boggles sometimes when i see some slabbed coins. It's not even a rare coin either. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another comparison chart;

UK GRADING      Traditional US (ANA)    SHELDON SCALE
       Poor                  PO-1
       Poor                  Fair                                        FR-2
       Almost Good    AG-3
       Fair                  Good                                         G-4
       Almost Fine     Very Good                               VG-8
       Fine                 Fine                                            F-12
       Good Fine       Very Fine                                  VF-20
       Very Fine       (Choice) Very Fine                      VF-30
Good Very Fine.   (Choice) Extremely Fine             EF-45
Nearly EF              Extremely Fine  About UNC       AU-50
Good EF               (Choice) About UNC                   AU-55
                             (Very Choice) About UNC           AU-58
About UNC            Uncirculated                              MS/PR-60
About UNC            Uncirculated                              MS/PR-61
About UNC            Uncirculated                              MS/PR-62
Uncirculated          Uncirculated                              MS/PR-63

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That last seems overly generous. I've not seen many 60s that warrant better than EF. Uncs are rarely less than 64 and even 65s are often hopelssly optimistic. The bank token I got rid of on account of wear to the laurel, yet got slabbed 66 springs to mind too. We are in danger of having a complete generation with rose-tinted spectacles when it comes to grading. The alternative is to extend the Sheldon scale to encompass the things that are better than 'uncirculated'.There has been a large amount of upwards grade drift over the past generation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm just grateful that, for the most part, the grades belonging to raw hammered coins remain blissfully simple. :)

Edited by Coinery
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Coinery said:

I'm just grateful that, for the most part, the grades belonging to raw hammered coins remain blissfully simple. :)

I guess that numismatic slabbing is the equivalent of sciences and the arts in academia. In theory, milled coinage slabbing should just be a straight forward measurement of wear, whereas a hammered coin can be as struck, but flat, or in the case of some of the heavy chunky ancients, have good detail but be relatively low grade, i.e. they are the arts side where the number on the slab is irrelevant, and as always in the arts, beauty in the eye of the beholder. I still stick by my two point grading scale.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Exbrit Manx said:

I've seen slightly different comparisons, but here is one:

The table below shows how one scale relates to another based on our grading using standard terms, and our experience and observations of the numerical scales. It should be noted that the prefixes accompanying the US grades typically imply a higher grade than the UK grading terms (e.g. AU = VF-EF). 

Raw grade    US grade(Sheldon)    CGS grade
Choice UNC    MS66 - MS70         90-100
UNC                MS64 - MS65          82-90
About UNC     MS62 - MS63           80
GEF                MS60 - MS61           75-78
EF                   AU58 - MS60           65-70
NEF                AU55                        55-60
GVF                AU53                        45-50
VF                  AU50                         40
NVF                EF45                         35
GF                  VF35 - EF40             25-30
F                    VF20 - VF30              20

But: I have also seen some British auctions that follow the US scale more than UK. Australia is another story.

I rather like this table as TPG (or FPG in the case of LCGS) tend to pretend their numbers convert to excessively high raw grades.

As a minor point, I think MS67-70 merit a stronger adjective than "choice". MS64 or CGS82 for UNC sounds about right. CGS 80 can have a bit too much cabinet friction (aka wear) to be called UNC in strict grading in my view. (I would suggest CGS 80-78/75 as About UNC rather than just 80) MS60 = EF sounds about right too. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

AU50?  Good grief.  
PCGS only gave this a VF30 grade.  Which is largely why nowadays I go by eye appeal and tend to ignore other people's grading when buying. 

03551872_max.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Rob said:

I guess that numismatic slabbing is the equivalent of sciences and the arts in academia. In theory, milled coinage slabbing should just be a straight forward measurement of wear, whereas a hammered coin can be as struck, but flat, or in the case of some of the heavy chunky ancients, have good detail but be relatively low grade, i.e. they are the arts side where the number on the slab is irrelevant, and as always in the arts, beauty in the eye of the beholder. I still stick by my two point grading scale.

I 100% agree with you, and I'm guessing your 2 point grading system is quite simply:

grade 1 - I like/want it!

grade 2 - I don't like/need it!

I'd have to add a third tier to that grading system, however, the...

"grade 3 - holy mother of god I so, SO, want that!"

...kind of grade/variety! :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem with grading is that it is an art and not a science. We have all seen grades that we disagree with and that have sometimes shocked us and it really doesn't matter whether it is the TPG doing the grading, an auction house, a dealer or an individual. I have had some good surprises and plenty of bad surprises.

My experience of NGC is that they have been pretty strict. My experience of LCGS is that they either overgrade or that their mapping to US grades is out by a couple of points. My experience of buying non-slabbed coins at auction is that they are often overgraded; "almost mint" is usually far from that. And there are plenty of dealers who overgrade too.

Ultimately, you have to buy the coin and not the grade. But you also have to understand that, if buying on the basis of a photo, that it can be 'doctored'. There is a lot of risk involved. Buying from a dealer in whom you have trust can substantially reduce the risk. And, despite the above, buying slabbed coins also reduces the risk as, for the most part, they tend to get it more or less right.

Edited by jaggy
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Coinery said:

I'm just grateful that, for the most part, the grades belonging to raw hammered coins remain blissfully simple. :)

Either you like it or you don't.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Peter said:

Either you like it or you don't.

Nail on the head, Peter! ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

.6 or 10 different values of Unc/MS is absurd by any standards.  A coin is either Unc/MS or it isn't.  The next highest grade should be GEF. (I accept that some coins have more so-called eye appeal than others, but that shouldn't affect the grade)  Fortunately 95% of my stuff is between F and VF so I don't need to worry about such things.   

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Any ideas what it eventually sold for? I can't find it now. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ahhh. I forgotten.  I thought it was auction. I might just slab a few of mine if there pulling in around that mark ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×