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craigy

!953 frosted proof halfcrown

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Hi All new on here so i would like to say hello, my reason for posting is that just under 3 weeks ago i did a deal with a dealer swapping just under 300 Olympic 50p's and other decimals up to a value of £600, i used most of it to swap for what i thought was a scarce coin, the one in the pics, turns out after having some time to reflect on this purchase and look into it that its not, i got one for 7 quid on ebay the other and after looking about it turns out its a standard 1953 proof, i have contacted the dealer with no reply, i am getting concerned as there t and c's say returns in 7 days, i will not name the dealer but there are fairly well established, your comments would be welcome, you can buy thewhole coronation set for around £100 with coins having the same amount of frosting, there is one that has the I of DEI pointing to a space between the beads on the border, this one does not, i paid £550 for it, 

20170624_P1010729.jpg

20170624_P1010730.jpg

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this is the one i bought on ebay for 7 quid a few days ago, excuse my photo skills, but the coin is not as bad as it looks, the reverse is far more frosted that the one i bought from the dealer but not as frosted on the obverse 

20170701_P1010850.jpg

20170701_P1010861.jpg

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Yes, do stay on the dealer. That is a pleasant coin but not so rare as you might have been led to believe. I am inclined to not even give credit to the varietal half crown proof which seems to show up relatively frequently and might have been worth that money to some. I really don't think it all that ethical what he did, trying to pass of such at that "value".

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Hi and welcome .

I noticed this on another forum, did the top one you buy as a VIP proof ?.

If it is a normal one (i dont have a clue) then surely no dealer would of sold that for £550.

Can someone on here confirm from the photograph if it is just a normal proof please.

My worry would be why would a dealer want £600 of decimal stuff :wacko:

 

Edited by PWA 1967

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35 minutes ago, PWA 1967 said:

Hi and welcome .

I noticed this on another forum, did the top one you buy as a VIP proof ?.

If it is a normal one (i dont have a clue) then surely no dealer would of sold that for £550.

Can someone on here confirm from the photograph if it is just a normal proof please.

My worry would be why would a dealer want £600 of decimal stuff :wacko:

 

no it was listed as a 1953 frosted proof crown, no mention of vip but stating uncommon/scarce, after looking at sets on ebay and digging about oi have seen some that have the same amount of frosting for £100 for a whole coronation set, i believe the rare ones are the plastic type ?? where the I in DEI points to a space between the beads on the border 

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39 minutes ago, PWA 1967 said:

Hi and welcome .

I noticed this on another forum, did the top one you buy as a VIP proof ?.

If it is a normal one (i dont have a clue) then surely no dealer would of sold that for £550.

Can someone on here confirm from the photograph if it is just a normal proof please.

My worry would be why would a dealer want £600 of decimal stuff :wacko:

 

it was on the coin community forum 

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So its a normal one of which the sets you can get a decent one for £80 or the single coin for £20.

Dont really need to wait for any answers on here , better to wrap it up and post it back tomorrow.

Better to find out now than when you came to sell it :)

Although a couple have sold for considerably more on the LCA site.

Listed as frosted 1953 proof.

You really need to be able to tell the difference and you have one to compare in hand.

Edited by PWA 1967

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7 hours ago, PWA 1967 said:

So its a normal one of which the sets you can get a decent one for £80 or the single coin for £20.

Dont really need to wait for any answers on here , better to wrap it up and post it back tomorrow.

Better to find out now than when you came to sell it :)

Although a couple have sold for considerably more on the LCA site.

Listed as frosted 1953 proof.

You really need to be able to tell the difference and you have one to compare in hand.

my own fault really in a way, i should have got clued up first, just a dealer i trusted, he never pushed the coin my way i chose it freely, i had some credit with him and i thought i might do something different as i had started to collect the 20th proofs, 1902, 1911, 27, 37, 50 51 and wanted something a bit tasty if that makes sense, as i would never spend that kind of money on a single coin in cash, from what i gather the rare ones are from the plastic proof set as called because it came in a plastic wallet, , the first portrait of the queen was used but from what i gather it was slightly changed when the coronation set was issued in the red case, and for the one's going into circulation, , the one's in the plastic set is identified by the I in DEI on the obverse pointing to a space between beads on the border, that in itself is not mega rare or scarce, but what is is when they are frosted, the VIP sets were struck from these dies and thats the rare one's, the standard proof has the I in DEI on the obverse pointing to a bead around the border and from a bit of research and whats sold on ebay etc they are extremely common, 

 

the so called plastic set, as you can see they way they were packed they were never be gonna frosty proof standard 

 

https://www.uk-mint.com/cart/1953-eliz-ii-coronation-set-ideal-birthday-or-anniversary-gift.html

 

 

i did see the one's on the LCA thing, the plastic type frosted were there but i did see the one i have for about £200 sold, which is confusing cause one sold on ebay a few weeks ago from america for 79p lol, and one for about a quid, exactly the same, so who are these london coins ?? the same ones who sell coins on ebay for a vast mark up ?

 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Great-Britain-1953-1-2-Crown-Proof-1-/382049356141?epid=102170378&hash=item58f3ea896d%3Ag%3Acz4AAOSwuspY-APj&nma=true&si=M3AFIFOdT1OYqCI6r4Ub%252BkSYf2M%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1953-Half-Crown-Gem-Proof-/282432713062?hash=item41c24d3166%3Ag%3AZlUAAOSwpkFY7~jT&nma=true&si=M3AFIFOdT1OYqCI6r4Ub%252BkSYf2M%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

 

i will wait to see what the dealer says or if he comes back at all, this does not sit well with me and i'm not willing to let it go, trouble is he wasn't passing it off as anything other that 1953 frosted proof halfcrown, so i have suggested he id'd it wrong in the first place, anyway anyone with any credibility will do the right thing, esp when they have multiple coins in stock to hand for £50,000 £60,000 plus, thousands of coins in £1000's range etc 

Edited by craigy

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LCA do a regular auction and were part of CGS now LCGS I believe.To their credit they get most things right.On the more expensive coins keep your wallet shut until you know what you are buying.The dealer is probably spending your Olympic coins down the pub at face ...I wouldn't be prepared to list on Ebay. Imagine ebay,paypal and P&P  fees.Your dealer sounds like scammer and one to avoid.

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right just found there latest paperlist delivered inte post, described as 1953 proof half crown cgs variety 05 FDC, need to find out what this cgs variety 05 is  

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It doesn't look like a VIP proof and it isn't the rare I of DEI to space proof.  I would definitely be wanting a refund.

The rarer proof halfcrowns are not quite as rare as first thought, quite a few have turned up since they were first identified.

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sod it, i'm gonna name the dealer, R Ingram Coins 

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11 minutes ago, craigy said:

sod it, i'm gonna name the dealer, R Ingram Coins 

I have great difficulty buying from Rendel because of his pricing structure.....?

Jerry

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3 minutes ago, jelida said:

I have great difficulty buying from Rendel because of his pricing structure.....?

Jerry

bought a few coins from them nothing earth shattering but have always trusted them, as you say a bit on the pricey side but they have the stock,  this is a big let down, not sure where they have got the price from this from,not someone i'd expect to take advantage like that, i know they are dealers but i aint happy paying £550 for a £20 coin told them that, he said they got it from a reputable source, i sent him recent sales links and said i aint having it, i spose its my own fault not being fully clued up at the time, but like i said you become trusting of people, i'm not sure they are even a member of the BNTA 

Edited by craigy

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i'm sure the new consumer rights act 2016 gives you 30 days with distance selling, but can only seem to find 14 days refereed to and his terms are 7 days, considering i'd just came back from a work trip then was a way again with work for nearly a fortnight its the only time i've had to sit down and take stock of the coin, i could kick myself, always thought i was quite clued up, that's whats bugging me 

 

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5 minutes ago, craigy said:

bought a few coins from them nothing earth shattering but have always trusted them, as you say a bit on the pricey side but they have the stock,  this is a big let down, not sure where they have got the price from this from,not someone i'd expect to take advantage like that, i know they are dealers but i aint happy paying £550 for a £20 coin told them that, he said they got it from a reputable source, i sent him recent sales links and said i aint having it, i spose its my own fault not being fully clued up at the time, but like i said you become trusting of people, i'm not sure they are even a member of the BNTA 

They are not unfortunately. List of BNTA members:

http://www.bnta.net/index.cfm?do=members&Title

 

 

 

 

 

 

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25 minutes ago, craigy said:

considering they are a large dealer i find that quite shocking 

 

I wouldn't be shocked by that. The criteria for the BNTA whilst low in number are rather difficult to fill, ie you have to be no financial threat whatsoever to anyone who's related to the lady that deals with your application.

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Whats shocking is a dealer selling A/UNC 1933 pennies for £135.

Not altered dates just..... RT....... although he has got a 1933 Penny thats UNC for the same price :rolleyes:

Anyway perhaps one of those dealers who doesnt like selling anything and described to me recently as more like mobile museums.

For him to say he got it from a reputable source is just a get out or alternatively he has not got a clue like me :D

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1 hour ago, craigy said:

i'm sure the new consumer rights act 2016 gives you 30 days with distance selling, but can only seem to find 14 days refereed to and his terms are 7 days, considering i'd just came back from a work trip then was a way again with work for nearly a fortnight its the only time i've had to sit down and take stock of the coin, i could kick myself, always thought i was quite clued up, that's whats bugging me 

 

I think it is 14 days to notify a return, then 14 days to actuate the return, thereby 28 days

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9 minutes ago, Nonmortuus said:

I have had a couple off Rendel and they have been fine :)

The difference is Paul you know what your buying.

The person who buys a 1933 replica penny that you can get for £15 and pays £130 doesnt and trusted them.

Same as this Frosted thing for £550 i dont think was fair if its just a normal one worth £20.

Dealers should be trusted and i appreciate they need to have a mark up but ...........i am out of this one :D

  • Like 1

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29 minutes ago, Nonmortuus said:

I have had a couple off Rendel and they have been fine :)

so have i thats why i cant understand how this has happened, its a pretty specific area getting into the finer details of the early plastic type dies and vip issues etc, i did place to much trust in who i was buying from, i didn't actually pay £550 for it i had around £370 quid in decimal £2's 50'p you know and the Olympic 50p's, i have 3 sets of olympics in the first issue folder with the medal things so i wasn't too bothered in seeing them go, i can get the £2's all day long from friends in shops etc, wasn't any scarce ones in there like kew gardens or the 2002 £2 commonwealth or the bible or the Olympic £2's. we came to a deal of £600, i chose that and a 1950 proof penny,    thought i would do something different instead of using it to and trusted the price to reflect in its scarcity, then when i finally had a chance to sit down i realized it was the billy basic and were frosted like that in many sets on ebay, and the fact i won one last week for £7 and seeing one sell in April for .76p and another for around £6 from the states made me think something wasn't right, 

Edited by craigy

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Ask for your money back. Any dealer worth their salt will offer a no-quibble returns. You can say 7 days, but if it is fundamentally mis-described then that period goes out the window. If a coin is a forgery, then you have to unpick the traded history of the coin until eventually someone is left holding it.

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its not been mis described thats the problem, i never rush into things but i did this time, thats why i'm gutted, you know something weird, when i first held the coin i never got that feeling from it, if that makes sense, you can feel if a coins special it gives out a radiance a feeling  

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