An alternative to Ebay?

[Levi_NI 0]

Check these wee pages out and tell me what you think...

http://www.antiquestall.com/cgi-bin/browse...items.pl?cat=25

[Master Jmd 50]

The price in dollars ($) is far greater than the price in pounds (£)...

example:

Item Number: 4060

Price: £25 ($US 47.50)

...surely thats a bit OTT?

Edit: I take that comment back...didn't realist the exchange rate was so high compared to what it was on a mock maths paper from 1997.

Edited February 2, 2005 by Master Jmd

[Levi_NI 0]

Averages around $1.80 to the £1 (I have an American wife going back to the US tomorrow)

I was more worried about the descriptions, and then no images...

[Emperor Oli 0]

It's £1-$1.88 today, madness to think it was about $1.50 a few years ago.

[TomGoodheart 373]

Yeah, I wouldn't buy a coin without a clear picture of it.

... that doesn't work quite so well now I changed my avatar..

Edited February 2, 2005 by TomGoodheart

[Levi_NI 0]

Is it a Cow from Northern Ireland?

[Levi_NI 0]

Ok.. just to measure opinion, what are your thoughts on these sites?

www.certifiedgbcoins.com

and

www.coinsale.co.uk

Edit by Chris: I've left the names there, but removed the links. Mentioning competitors is ok, but I don't want them linked to, as it can help improve their search engine rankings, and why should I want to do that!

[Emperor Oli 0]

Certified coins is bad, I requested to Lockdale's that they remove my name from their mailing list because I don't want anything to do with that company. I'm treally quit anti-slabbing and hope this arm of Lockdale's goes bust soon.

The fact that they say "A slabbed coin can be accepted for auction sight-unseen" is absolute crap - you're just buying the slab then. Grading companies don't put anything about toning on their coins so it could have great rainbow toning or be blast white or be black as pitch. The truth is you don't know what you're buying until you see it.

[Chris Perkins 223]

Certified coins is bad, I requested to Lockdale's that they remove my name from their mailing list because I don't want anything to do with that company. I'm treally quit anti-slabbing and hope this arm of Lockdale's goes bust soon.

The fact that they say "A slabbed coin can be accepted for auction sight-unseen" is absolute crap - you're just buying the slab then. Grading companies don't put anything about toning on their coins so it could have great rainbow toning or be blast white or be black as pitch. The truth is you don't know what you're buying until you see it.

Yes and just to add to that the short story of the plain edge proof George IV Half Crown I bought, which turned out to be a milled edge proof, because the slab made the edge to hard to see!

There's an awful lot of hype on Certified Coins and it's all aimed an ameteurs and investors that think they can make a few bob quickly, and without first gaining the proper knowledge in a subject. Personally I don't think a consistant profit can be made within any investment area that the investor himself knows little about.

[Levi_NI 0]

The reason I asked is because I could see how an amateur, such as myself, could be taken in by the site. I personally don't tend to buy off any websites, and prefer to be able to hold and feel before I part with money (Chris being the one and only exception..and even that was very recent).

[Levi_NI 0]

What about www.Celticcoins.com?

As you have probably worked out, I am trailing the internet trying to weed out those that are good, from the majority that aren't...

[mint_mark 3]

I have been looking at Celtic coins for a long time and I think that dealer, Chris Rudd, probably has the best reputation around. If I bought a coin from him I would have no worries about authenticity or incorrect identification... of course, you do pay more for that expertise and reassurance. I have yet to persuade myself to buy a Celtic coin... in fact, spending more than £50 on a single coin makes me uneasy...

So anyway, stick to dealers called Chris and you can't go wrong

[Master Jmd 50]

The three best sites (in my opinion) for buying coins are Predecimal, Colin Cooke Coins, and Online-coins.

Predecimal is best though of course...

Edited February 6, 2005 by Master Jmd

[Levi_NI 0]

Ok.. just to measure opinion, what are your thoughts on these sites?

www.certifiedgbcoins.com

and

www.coinsale.co.uk

Edit by Chris: I've left the names there, but removed the links. Mentioning competitors is ok, but I don't want them linked to, as it can help improve their search engine rankings, and why should I want to do that!

Sorry about that.. it never really occured to me. I'll remember for the future.

[Coppers 57]

Just to add to this:

I recently purchased 3 slabbed UK coins from the people that I think Kuhli (or another observant American) mentioned before. They have set themselves up as the first seller of slabbed UK coins, and promote themselves by saying that the slabbed bug is just about to come to the UK from the US...So get them cheap while you can!

The 3 coins I purchased with an investor customer in mind were:

1826 Plain edge Proof Half Crown PCGS PR63

1898 Half Crown PCGS MS64

1902 Half Crown PCGS MS63

I got them today and I'm not very pleased because:

The 1826 Half Crown is a nice coin, but it does not have a plain edge. It's fiddley to see with it being surrounded with plastic, but at the right angle I am able to determine that it does not have a plain edge. Nice coin though so I think I'll probably keep it.

The 1898 Half Crown (supposed to be MS64) has the most awful black carbon spot type mark on the truncation and another less severe one on the reverse. It's UNC and lustrious, but there was no mention of the black marks in the listing and the pictures were not good enough to see them.

The 1902 Half Crown has unbelievably ugly patchy toning that is not visible in the picture either. I wil probably keep it.

So my lesson today is that slabbing is all very well, but if you're going to sell slabbed coins you cannot just list the grade and have done with it. Descriptions of many coins are not complete if they just list the grade. And Slabbed coins are hard to take accurate pictures of. And god alone knows how a coin with horrible black marks Obv and Rev got away with MS64! (unless it happened in the slab, which is perhaps more scary!)

And perhaps most importantly; slabbed coins are not always a great investment for people who know nothing about coins. I can imagine lots of people buying coins purely on pictures and PCGS (etc) grade only....Tucking them away and finding when they come to sell them that the coins are less attractive in the eye of a collector than the grade led them to believe.

Any coin investment has to involve someone that knows lots about coins regardless of whether they're slabbed or not. I'm not saying the seller (who shall remain nameless) is dishonest, but I do feel that they are aiming themselves at non experts from the angle that a 'slab with a grade is all you need', and I believe that to be wrong. Also, they seem to be PCGS and NGC authorised...So if they're slabbing the coins themselves that's even more 'hmmmm'.

Chris...were the coins mentioned in the above quote purchased from www.certifiedgbcoins.com?

[Levi_NI 0]

What exactly is 'slabbing'?

[mint_mark 3]

"slabbing" is popular in the US. Briefly, companies offer an authentication and grading service. You send them a coin and pay a fee, their experts identify and grade it for you. You get the coin back encased in a plastic "slab" which includes the grading information and acts like a certificate of authenticity.

The idea is that from then on the coin is permanently in the slab and protected so its condition can't get any worse. The information is always attached to it and the reputation of the grading company means that everybody can respect the grade and we don't have to mess about actually looking at the coin any more. Slabbed coins can then be treated more like commodities and prices are set by type and grade.

Of course it doesn't work perfectly... Chris' story shows that the grading doesn't take everything into account that you might think is important. There is a problem of "grade inflation"... recently graded coins tend to be given higher grades than earlier graded coins. Coins can be broken out of slabs... grade inflation gives an incentive to break a coin out and send it for grading again, hoping for a higher grade and therfore a more valuable coin.

[Millimoo 0]

The coin is encapsulated in plastic, usually after an "expert" has decided what the coin is, and includes the coins attribution.

I'm sure it has its place, but I'm not sure what that place is.

I'd rather have the coin than a slab of plastic!

[Master Jmd 50]

What exactly is 'slabbing'?

Slabbed coins are inside a hard plastic case which is very hard to break open. Coins in slabs have their type and grade printed on the slab (example)...

I personally do not like them.

[Levi_NI 0]

Thank you all... it seems like a good idea for a really expensive/rare coin, but sort of takes away the enjoyment of holding the coin. If I ever have enough money, and want something that would be an investment, then the slabbing route would seem to be the way.

[mint_mark 3]

Well, I can see that... but imagine if you wanted to spend a similar amount and invest in, say, a jewel encrusted brooch, a first rate antique pocket watch, a rare original letter or a piece of early porcelain.

Would you lock them up in a protective box that you couldn't open and then just keep them in the bank? I wouldn't... it's my stuff and I want to play with it!

If you have a valuable coin and you want to protect it then I think capsules would be good... actually, that gives me an idea... I'm off to the capsules page!

[Levi_NI 0]

Oh I agree 100%.. I wouldn't buy a coin just to lock it up, but I'm sure there are those who would, and that is the market that those who would slab, are aiming at.

[Chris Perkins 223]

Chris...were the coins mentioned in the above quote purchased from www.certifiedgbcoins.com?

Yes, for a customer. I also had a Victorian 1898 Half Crown that I sent back, because it had an ugly blob of black toning on the otherwise perfect reverse which bothered me for and 'MS65' (or 66 I can't remember). I couldn't see that in the picture, nor was it mentioned in the description.

[Master Jmd 50]

Just had a look at that certifiedgbcoins for the first time, and some of the farthings are quite exeptional...but the prices could be a little lower (1890 Farthing MS65RD £150!)...

There are three coins that are really tempting;

This (to go with my new 1754/0 farthing)

www.certifiedgbcoins.com/Farthing%20Coin%20Pages/Farthing%201754.htm

and www.certifiedgbcoins.com/Farthing%20Coin%20Pages/Farthing%201895%20Bun%20Head.htm

..a bit pricey, but do you think that they would be worth 'breaking out of their slab' for my collection?

[Emperor Oli 0]

I wouldn't buy from them because, in my opinion:

A) Slabs are nasty

B ) The attitude Lockadale's are taking is obnoxious

C) There's no point buying a slabbed coin just to break it out - the premium for the slabbed coin is in the slab label itself.

As always, it is your choice.

Edited February 6, 2005 by Emperor Oli