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argentumandcoins

Warrington Auctions

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Below is a copy of an email that I received today in relation to an online only auction that ended on Sunday. I was the "lucky" winner of 2 decent looking Victorian coins of Jamaica. My winning bid was a paltry £10. I was emailed an invoice on Monday and payment was taken later that day from my card details held on the saleroom.com. The total taken was £13.96, 36% commission plus 36p for bidding via the saleroom!

Todays email:

Good afternoon,

 

We have an invoice for you relating to our sale on 10 May 2017.

 

RE: LOT 1198 – Victorian Jamaican Half Penny

 

I have attempted to call you today to no avail as it would appear that we have an incorrect contact number for you on our records.  We are able to provide P&P on this lot to your address which would be charged at £12 plus VAT.

 

Unfortunately the items have attracted storage charges as outlined in our T&Cs and on the emailed invoice.  This currently equates to £20.00 .  If the account is settled by close of business Monday I would be happy to reduce the storage charges by half.

 

If I do not hear from you by close of business on Monday 22 May 2017 we will have no option other than to enter the items into the next available sale to recover the storage charges.

 

Best regards,

 

Warrington Auction

551 Europa Boulevard

Gemini Business Park

Westbrook

Warrington

WA5 7TP

 

T:01925 658833

 

 

I phoned them immediately upon receipt and was told that their terms and conditions are clearly outlined on both the saleroom and the email that I was sent on Monday. If I wasn't knee deep in trying to sort out Dads estate I probably would have sorted postage on Tuesday (YES EVEN AT £14.40 for 2 small coins), but c'est la vie. I spoke with the office manager, some fella called Chris, and he was quite implicit regarding their terms. I told him he was probably sailing close to the wind legally but he repeated that their terms are stated on both the saleroom and their email to me. I'd like to see them justify £5/day storage for a halfpenny and a Farthing in a County Court but life is too short and my immediate circumstances mean life is too precious.

The final result is that I have instructed them to put the coins back into their next auction and give the proceeds to the Air Ambulance. Their will be no charges to me other than the 15% commission plus VAT (wonders why he was charged 36% VAT inclusive commission to buy), which will be deducted from the sale price. Most auction houses charge no commission when selling on behalf of charities, then again Warrington certainly aren't most auction houses. They have the unique distinction of being the worst and most money grabbing firm I have yet to encounter!

Please feel free to share far and wide (no risk of libel as I have stated fact only) and remember that if you deal with Warrington Auctions you do so at your peril....

Edited by argentumandcoins
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Good that you have shared your experience. I guess the message is 'one to avoid like the plague'!

£5 a day storage? I had no idea available space in a matchbox could be so expensive.

…And £12 to post the coins from Warrington to Durham?!?!

Edited by Michael-Roo
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Thanks for the heads up, John. They will ultimately lose by employing such sharp practice. 

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Well CHRIS at Warrington Auctions why your so keen on your" terms and conditions" i am now glad its brought to peoples attention.

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£12 postage is not so much as a flat fee - £10 + VAT.

£5 a day storage is moot given the size, but again as a business you would expect to apply a minimum charge for the provision of any facility.

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Yes i agree Rob its more that buisnesses often relate to Terms and Conditions to often as some sort of "we dont have to be ethical or reasonable" its all written down for you.

One of my pet hates that is used to often by some :(

 

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Sorry but £12 postage is an absolute rip off from a company already over pricing its services. As for £5 storage a day that is a bloody disgrace especially taking into consideration the size of the items. Can't justify those costs no matter how much you try... No justification

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35 minutes ago, bhx7 said:

Sorry but £12 postage is an absolute rip off from a company already over pricing its services. As for £5 storage a day that is a bloody disgrace especially taking into consideration the size of the items. Can't justify those costs no matter how much you try... No justification

Special Delivery up to 100g and £500 is £6.45. The cost of jiffy bags, paperwork and other work required to ship suggests £10 all in is not excessive. As a VAT registered seller you have to add VAT to shipping costs - it is irrelevant that Royal Mail doesn't charge VAT.

As I said before, the £5/day storage is moot and I would think is imposed to ensure people settle promptly. The vendor doesn't get paid until the agreed date, but this is based on the assumption that the sale proceeds will have arrived in that period. That is why auctioneers apply a sum after a fixed period in which to settle up, because a person who doesn't pay dumps the liability onto the auctioneer. It is in everyone's interest to have a smooth transaction. It is no difference to the slow payer on eBay who generates a fixed fee for the sale, but then decides he/she doesn't want the item a few weeks down the line.

 

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Will stick with Colin Cooke. Had a great service, no over pricing of postage and a really friendly service. Can see what your saying within reason Rob but not for the coins mentioned at the hammer price. Prospective in p&p relative to value is called for. As for paper work and a jiffy bag+ VAT to double postage!!!!! Sorry seriously cannot justify, especially after taking into consideration their high buyers premium. 

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25 minutes ago, bhx7 said:

Will stick with Colin Cooke. Had a great service, no over pricing of postage and a really friendly service. Can see what your saying within reason Rob but not for the coins mentioned at the hammer price. Prospective in p&p relative to value is called for. As for paper work and a jiffy bag+ VAT to double postage!!!!! Sorry seriously cannot justify, especially after taking into consideration their high buyers premium. 

I can't speak highly enough of Colin Cooke. Never been disappointed, and they are absolutely straight down the line, with every transaction.

Bought quite a large number of coins from them over the years, and the service has always been friendly, honest, unpretentious and down to Earth, which is all anybody can ask. Pricing also very fair and realistic.

 

   

 

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Here in the USA, I have bought a couple of coins from Atlas. Now, I know that they are generally on the pricier end - though not always - but postage is included in their price.

What you see is what you pay.

Personally, I find that policy to be very attractive. 

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7 hours ago, Rob said:

Special Delivery up to 100g and £500 is £6.45. The cost of jiffy bags, paperwork and other work required to ship suggests £10 all in is not excessive. As a VAT registered seller you have to add VAT to shipping costs - it is irrelevant that Royal Mail doesn't charge VAT.

As I said before, the £5/day storage is moot and I would think is imposed to ensure people settle promptly. The vendor doesn't get paid until the agreed date, but this is based on the assumption that the sale proceeds will have arrived in that period. That is why auctioneers apply a sum after a fixed period in which to settle up, because a person who doesn't pay dumps the liability onto the auctioneer. It is in everyone's interest to have a smooth transaction. It is no difference to the slow payer on eBay who generates a fixed fee for the sale, but then decides he/she doesn't want the item a few weeks down the line.

 

Interesting about adding VAT to shipping costs. I've just gone back over my receipts from various auctions, and it would appear that whilst Spink & DNW add the VAT to carriage, at 20%, London Coins don't. They have consistently charged a fixed amount of £7.50, for several years, including on my latest invoice dated 9.3.17. The cost of next day tracked delivery is £6.45, therefore £6.45 + 20% = £7.74. As £7.50 is charged, that would clearly indicate that VAT is not being added to postage, and that the additional £1.05 is for the jiffy bag. Colin Cooke didn't add VAT to postage either.

As far as the £5 a day storage costs are concerned, I'd say that if, as John did, you've settled up as soon as reasonably practicable, eg: the day after the auction ended, then charging storage costs is bloody outrageous. If it's been a few weeks without settlement, then maybe at that point they could kick in.  

  

   

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It is possible that auction houses could negotiate a small discount to rates if they send a certain volume of mail. That might bring the cost down to £7.50 incl VAT. Don't know what rates are on offer from the post

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Rob the £12 P&P was PLUS VAT (£14.40 total). Special Delivery was not mentioned and I assume that the 2 coins would have been sent recorded. Storage charges applied to bulky items I can well understand as it is a pain working in a saleroom when the back-end is full of paid for but uncleared furniture etc. 2 coins though? 2 days after an online auction ends? I have used dozens of different auction houses via the saleroom and this shower at Warrington are by far the worst I have encountered, It's almost like they want a crap reputation....

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I think most auction houses have a flat postage fee, which would have to cover every value. Spink for example charge £20 incl VAT whether it is £20 or £20K. RM only cover to £2500, so more expensive items must be covered under their own insurance.

I think a storage charge imposed from day 1 and before a reasonable period of grace has expired is a bit off. Everyone should get at least a week to allow for trips away, whether leisure or business.

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29 minutes ago, Rob said:

I think most auction houses have a flat postage fee, which would have to cover every value. Spink for example charge £20 incl VAT whether it is £20 or £20K. RM only cover to £2500, so more expensive items must be covered under their own insurance.

I think a storage charge imposed from day 1 and before a reasonable period of grace has expired is a bit off. Everyone should get at least a week to allow for trips away, whether leisure or business.

Spink charge £10.00:   £8.33 + 20% VAT = £10.00. 

Here's a partial copy and paste of my latest invoice:-

Quote

 

British and Foreign Coins and Commemorative Medals Sale Date: 28/04/2017 12:00 PM Venue: London Hammer Price Invoice No.: 28/04/2017

Sale/Bidder No.: 17029 / 505162 Client No.: 80011857 To:

Total Buyer's Premium and VAT Import VAT 0 Buyer's Premium Input VAT Date (Tax Point): INVOICE Sale Details: 14.40

Victoria (1837-1901), Penny, 1897, Halfpenny 1897, both high tide, Farthings (2), 1895, 1901 (S.3961, 3962, 3963, 60.00 74.40 257 91.20 Edward VII (1902-10), Shilling, 1905, bare head right, rev. lion passant on crown (S.3982), a light edge bruise at th... 380.00 471.20 266

Postage Chg 8.33 1.67 10.00

zero rated hammer and premium VAT for EU VAT registered buyers. W standard import VAT, † input tax on hammer+premium, g investment gold, º zero rated on hammer+premium, In the case of items marked x and W this is not a VAT invoice, HM Customs & Excise will issue form C79 as Selling under the Margin Scheme, except as indicated: appropriate. To reclaim VAT on export form C88 must bear reference CPC 3153 00 Please refer to the Terms & Conditions in the catalogue to ascertain whether VAT is payable. Please ignore this invoice if payment has been sent. Input VAT at 20.00%, standard import VAT at 20.00%, reduced rate import VAT at 5.00%. *® zero rated for export, x reduced rate import tax on hammer (standard rate on premium), May be subject to reverse charge VAT in country of receipt e You will not acquire title to the Lot(s) until all amounts due have been paid in full. This includes instances where special arrangements were made for release of Lot(s) prior to full settlement. PAYMENT, in Sterling, is due within 7 days (credit account holders as per agreement) Invoice Total: £555.60 Totals: 448.33 105.60 555.60 Please use your client number as the reference for bank transfers. Bank transfer to: Barclays Bank Plc, 1 Churchill Place, London E14 5HP A/C No. 93852156 Sort Code: 20-00-00 Swift Address: BARCGB22 IBAN No. GB58BARC 200000 93852156

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by 1949threepence

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Sorry, I'd forgotten. You are right. It appears that for Spink the charge is only £10 for an invoice up to £1500. Above £1500, the £20 with no upper limit on the invoice value applies.

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16 hours ago, argentumandcoins said:

Rob the £12 P&P was PLUS VAT (£14.40 total). Special Delivery was not mentioned and I assume that the 2 coins would have been sent recorded. Storage charges applied to bulky items I can well understand as it is a pain working in a saleroom when the back-end is full of paid for but uncleared furniture etc. 2 coins though? 2 days after an online auction ends? I have used dozens of different auction houses via the saleroom and this shower at Warrington are by far the worst I have encountered, It's almost like they want a crap reputation....

I think auction houses ought to be satisfied with the money they get  from the combined buyer's and sellers's commission, which in Warrington's case is 32.75%+VAT.

Trying to get extra profit from charging excessive postage / storage is just unscrupulous. They are only harming themselves by these tactics.

 

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I don't think the postage is outrageous because it will be a blanket amount for items up to a certain size. The hammer price of £10 is low for the typical coin lot. Had it been a sovereign, then it would have to go SD just to be insured. Two sovereigns and it probably go into the SD over £500 value bracket.

I do have an issue with storage costs from day 1.

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On 5/19/2017 at 5:15 PM, argentumandcoins said:

Below is a copy of an email that I received today in relation to an online only auction that ended on Sunday. I was the "lucky" winner of 2 decent looking Victorian coins of Jamaica. My winning bid was a paltry £10. I was emailed an invoice on Monday and payment was taken later that day from my card details held on the saleroom.com. The total taken was £13.96, 36% commission plus 36p for bidding via the saleroom!

Todays email:

Good afternoon,

 

We have an invoice for you relating to our sale on 10 May 2017.

 

RE: LOT 1198 – Victorian Jamaican Half Penny

 

I have attempted to call you today to no avail as it would appear that we have an incorrect contact number for you on our records.  We are able to provide P&P on this lot to your address which would be charged at £12 plus VAT.

 

Unfortunately the items have attracted storage charges as outlined in our T&Cs and on the emailed invoice.  This currently equates to £20.00 .  If the account is settled by close of business Monday I would be happy to reduce the storage charges by half.

 

If I do not hear from you by close of business on Monday 22 May 2017 we will have no option other than to enter the items into the next available sale to recover the storage charges.

 

Best regards,

 

Warrington Auction

551 Europa Boulevard

Gemini Business Park

Westbrook

Warrington

WA5 7TP

 

T:01925 658833

 

 

I phoned them immediately upon receipt and was told that their terms and conditions are clearly outlined on both the saleroom and the email that I was sent on Monday. If I wasn't knee deep in trying to sort out Dads estate I probably would have sorted postage on Tuesday (YES EVEN AT £14.40 for 2 small coins), but c'est la vie. I spoke with the office manager, some fella called Chris, and he was quite implicit regarding their terms. I told him he was probably sailing close to the wind legally but he repeated that their terms are stated on both the saleroom and their email to me. I'd like to see them justify £5/day storage for a halfpenny and a Farthing in a County Court but life is too short and my immediate circumstances mean life is too precious.

The final result is that I have instructed them to put the coins back into their next auction and give the proceeds to the Air Ambulance. Their will be no charges to me other than the 15% commission plus VAT (wonders why he was charged 36% VAT inclusive commission to buy), which will be deducted from the sale price. Most auction houses charge no commission when selling on behalf of charities, then again Warrington certainly aren't most auction houses. They have the unique distinction of being the worst and most money grabbing firm I have yet to encounter!

Please feel free to share far and wide (no risk of libel as I have stated fact only) and remember that if you deal with Warrington Auctions you do so at your peril....

FFS, robbing bar stewards!!!!!!!

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I'm pretty new to Salesroom.com

I have a question. If you win do the auction house automatically take payment from the card you registered with Saleroom.com?

I won an item with Hansons and the term of condition number 5 say so

http://www.hansonsauctioneers.co.uk/pages/terms.php

but the invoice I recieve via email make no mention of this.

I spoke with Hanson's account and the lady say they don't but to waite for a confirmation email were I can pay with my card but that might be because it was related to a postage qoute.

 

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Usually you get an invoice with a link where you can pay the saleroom.com direct or there is instructions with bank details of where to pay or alternatively you ring them and pay over the phone but these usually arrive after the auction by the auctioneer via e-mail. Ring them on Monday before 12pm and settle over the phone you can also enquire about in house postage and packaging and settle that if its needed.

Edited by Ukstu

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I got the invoice from the auctioneer and payment instruction but if you read the auctioneer's  T&C on their website it says

  1. 5. If you are an internet buyer your payment will be taken from the card you have registered with on the Saleroom.com unless you notify Hansons Accounts Team

  2. The above however was not contained in the email invoice that was sent which is rather confusing. I want to potentially avoid double paying. You think they are experience enough one way or the other.

  3. Will need to find out on monday what is going on.

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Best bet. It's easier to speak to somebody and get clarification.  I've never had any auctioneer from the saleroom.com take money without me instigating the payment, but i haven't used Hansons.

Edited by Ukstu

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Just spoken to the auctioneer and they said they don't take money from Saleroom.com. What they will do is send payment request through Saleroom.com and I have to authorise it. So their T&C 

  1. "5. If you are an internet buyer your payment will be taken from the card you have registered with on the Saleroom.com unless you notify Hansons Accounts Team"

is wrong or at best ambiguous. There was no mention of any of this on their original invoice that request payments which I could easily have paid through my bank and I could potentially have made a double payments.

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