1841 Queen Victoria halfpennies.

[declan03 149]

Hi again.

Could anyone tell me if there are any 1841 Queen Victoria halfpenny forgeries going about? I purchased the one pictured here from ebay last week for £45. The seller had two identical 1841s on sale  last week. One on auction which sold for £41 & one on buy it now for £45. The buy it now finished 5 minutes before the auctioned one, hence i purchased it to make sure of getting it. I received the coin today and it is slightly different with two small noticeable dinks in the neck. Definitely not the coin purchased. Now what makes me suspicious is the seller now has another two 1841 halfpennies on sale again on ebay which you can look at. Again identical, again same buying format,  buy it now and auction. Sure its not possible for him to be only selling five almost identical 1841 halfpennies. 

Any advice appreciated. 

[1949threepence 3,366]

I've never heard of any 1841 halfpenny fakes, nor indeed any non contemporary copper or bronze fakes (tooled to look like a 1933 penny, excepted). Although it wouldn't surprise me if in due course some appeared. Maybe others know differently.

What would concern me here is the fact that you got a different coin from the one shown in the buy it now pic. I'd take that up with the seller - do you have a link to the sale and a pic of the reverse of the coin you have?

Thanks.

 

Edited May 10, 2017 by 1949threepence

[Michael-Roo 777]

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1841-Young-Victoria-Half-Penny-very-lustrous-/142373040954?hash=item212618333a:g:Hp0AAOSwX61ZCxYI

'Ten available'……..

[1949threepence 3,366]

9 minutes ago, Michael-Roo said:

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1841-Young-Victoria-Half-Penny-very-lustrous-/142373040954?hash=item212618333a:g:Hp0AAOSwX61ZCxYI

'Ten available'……..

What's your opinion? 

I notice the seller isn't a regular coin seller. His other items are non coin related. 

I must admit, it does seem a bit odd.  

[declan03 149]

Yes thats the seller Michael. Have i anything to be suspicious of? Reverse of the coin pictured here.

[Rob 2,996]

The colour looks too uniform for my liking. Even with a full lustre coin you see some variation in the toning. It ought to be 175 years old, after all.

Having said that, it is the commonest date. Question is, are the marks the same on all coins?

Edited May 10, 2017 by Rob

[1949threepence 3,366]

I don't know. It does look genuine to me. No sign of anything obviously fake.

With that said, you may find http://www.coinauthentication.co.uk/ useful.

 

[Michael-Roo 777]

 

Like you, I think they look ok but why would someone who doesn't sell coins have ten (still ten after you've bought one?) all brilliant uncirculated, and all so brilliant uncirculated that you're not even required to select the specimen you want?

 

[1949threepence 3,366]

7 minutes ago, Michael-Roo said:

 

Like you, I think they look ok but why would someone who doesn't sell coins have ten (still ten after you've bought one?) all brilliant uncirculated, and all so brilliant uncirculated that you're not even required to select the specimen you want?

 

Precisely. That is very suspicious and sets alarm bells ringing.. 

[declan03 149]

1949 threepence....now that i,ve done a double take of 10 of.....well who is going to have over 15 x 1841 halfpennies! ! I think i may ask for a refund.

[Michael-Roo 777]

 

He also has one offered for bidding (rather than BIN), and is using the exact same photos.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1841-Young-Victoria-Half-Penny-very-lustrous-/142372128420?hash=item21260a46a4:g:Hp0AAOSwX61ZCxYI

[Rob 2,996]

1 minute ago, Michael-Roo said:

 

He also has one offered for bidding (rather than BIN), and is using the exact same photos.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1841-Young-Victoria-Half-Penny-very-lustrous-/142372128420?hash=item21260a46a4:g:Hp0AAOSwX61ZCxYI

Quite possibly a literal stock photograph

[declan03 149]

Hi Rob.

Its a different stock photograph than the one he used last week.

[Rob 2,996]

With a buy it now price of £50 it has to be wrong. Whether you know anything about coins or not, a simple search will show things in that condition selling for a couple hundred.

[1949threepence 3,366]

18 minutes ago, declan03 said:

1949 threepence....now that i,ve done a double take of 10 of.....well who is going to have over 15 x 1841 halfpennies! ! I think i may ask for a refund.

Well you have a good excuse if you weren't sent the exact coin in the pic. 

Although, equally, it would be interesting to have it tested, just to see if it is fake. 

[Rob 2,996]

Looking at the previous sales, the earlier picture had a complete E in DEI, whilst the one currrently on offer has the broken E. It could be a genuine small group that he has acquired. Other bulk groups of mint state same date coins have come to light in recent years. 1825 and 1890 farthings for example, or the group of 50 1905 sixpences.

[Michael-Roo 777]

 

I've had a look at the seller's feedback. Before these halfpennies no coins at all, not one. Weird.

[Rob 2,996]

If they are copies, he must surely be using someone else's pictures. A group of genuine coins might possibly contain examples of complete and broken E coins, but copies would be all from the same batch, i.e. full or broken E, but highly unlikely both. It might be worth buying a second example to compare. If genuine, £50 is a steal. If not you can get your money back.

[declan03 149]

11 minutes ago, Rob said:

If they are copies, he must surely be using someone else's pictures. A group of genuine coins might possibly contain examples of complete and broken E coins, but copies would be all from the same batch, i.e. full or broken E, but highly unlikely both. It might be worth buying a second example to compare. If genuine, £50 is a steal. If not you can get your money back.

Fill your boots with them Rob!! He has another 11 

[Rob 2,996]

I've got two or three here in stock. I need to buy other things.

[Rob 2,996]

38 minutes ago, 1949threepence said:

I don't know. It does look genuine to me. No sign of anything obviously fake.

With that said, you may find http://www.coinauthentication.co.uk/ useful.

 

He isn't doing authentication any more. He's looking after his grandchildren now.

[Chingford 166]

I heard sometime last year that a mint roll(s) of CHP1841 had been found, the finder sold them with multiple listings on Ebay, price started top end but flooded the market, in the end they were selling in bulk for less than half book price. There are several now in slabs both this side and the other side of the pond, all very high grades, similar happened with CF1825 a few years ago, too many too soon for the market to absorb and keep price buoyant.

There are CHP forgeries, dates I have seen are 1825 and 1826 modern looking contemporary copies, 1845, 1848, 1851 and 1860 there is an error with all, an exaggerated long serif to the first 1 of the date, and the identical flat worn reverse used for all.

 

[1949threepence 3,366]

28 minutes ago, Chingford said:

I heard sometime last year that a mint roll(s) of CHP1841 had been found, the finder sold them with multiple listings on Ebay, price started top end but flooded the market, in the end they were selling in bulk for less than half book price. There are several now in slabs both this side and the other side of the pond, all very high grades, similar happened with CF1825 a few years ago, too many too soon for the market to absorb and keep price buoyant.

There are CHP forgeries, dates I have seen are 1825 and 1826 modern looking contemporary copies, 1845, 1848, 1851 and 1860 there is an error with all, an exaggerated long serif to the first 1 of the date, and the identical flat worn reverse used for all.

 

I must admit, if it was me who'd found such a mint roll, I'd release just a few, only very gradually. Probably still keep the majority for a rainy day.

[1949threepence 3,366]

16 hours ago, Rob said:

He isn't doing authentication any more. He's looking after his grandchildren now.

Maybe he ought to consider taking his website down then, or leaving a merssage on it. 

[declan03 149]

32 minutes ago, 1949threepence said:

I must admit, if it was me who'd found such a mint roll, I'd release just a few, only very gradually. Probably still keep the majority for a rainy day.