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Sword

Charles I Shilling

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I have just brought my second hammered coin, this Charles I shilling from Lloyd Bennett. (My first hammered was a Charles I Halfcrown from LCA). Size Approx. 30 -31.50 mm. Weight 5.91g. Group E, type 4.1 var., Sharp F5/1, mm. anchor to the right. Ex:- Alan Morris (bgt.Mark Senior.2/99). Lloyd graded it as better than VF/VF.

It's now in the post and I look forward to receiving it tomorrow. 

I like it a lot because of its well struck portrait. There are no weak areas and grade is decent too. I would have preferred the flan to be rounder but the shape is good enough for me. I am obviously still very inexperienced with hammered as this is only my second example. Any comments, advice, opinions most welcome and appreciated.

Right now a decent hammered coin tend to get me a lot more excited than a milled coin of comparable price!

1.jpg

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Looks a decent purchase Sword.  These aren't the easiest coins to find with a pleasing portrait.  Very often the King's face has some weakness.  And it's always nice to have some provenance for a coin too.  I've bought quite a few times from Lloyd and several of those coins were ex Alan's collection.  I've not been disappointed with my purchases.  :D

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23 hours ago, TomGoodheart said:

Looks a decent purchase Sword.  These aren't the easiest coins to find with a pleasing portrait.  Very often the King's face has some weakness.  And it's always nice to have some provenance for a coin too.  I've bought quite a few times from Lloyd and several of those coins were ex Alan's collection.  I've not been disappointed with my purchases.  :D

Thanks Richard. Your endorsement regarding a Charles I shilling is indeed most reassuring. :)

I don't mind exposing my ignorance in asking the following questions. The mm anchor would either date it to 1628-9 or 1638-9 according to Spink. However since S2797 can have mm triangle as well, I guess the year must be 1638-9. Is that correct?

I have always assumed the Roman numeral (XII in this case) is the Regnal year. Having said that, I am now rather confused as the same Roman numeral can have several  different mintmarks which doesn't make sense if it is really the Regnal Year.

I think this coin has the "Aberystwyth" bust. Am I correct? If so is it referring to the Aberystwyth branch mint?

Edited by Sword

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13 minutes ago, Sword said:

Thanks Richard. Your endorsement regarding a Charles I shilling is indeed most reassuring. :)

I don't mind exposing my ignorance in asking the following questions. The mm anchor would either date it to 1628-9 or 1638-9 according to Spink. However since S2797 can have mm triangle as well, I guess the year must be 1638-9. Is that correct?

I have always assume the Roman numeral (XII in this case) is the Regnal year. Having said that, I am now rather confused as the same Roman numeral can have several  different mintmarks which doesn't make sense if it is really the Regnal Year.

I think this coin has the "Aberystwyth" bust. Am I correct? If so is it referring to the Aberystwyth branch mint?

Firstly, nice acquisition and great to hear your excitement with hammered alongside milled! :)

The XII here refers to the denomination. So this is a twelvepence, a.k.a. shilling. I don't have my literature to hand so will let others answer the i.m. and bust questions.

 

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1 hour ago, HistoricCoinage said:

Firstly, nice acquisition and great to hear your excitement with hammered alongside milled! :)

The XII here refers to the denomination. So this is a twelvepence, a.k.a. shilling. I don't have my literature to hand so will let others answer the i.m. and bust questions.

 

Thanks Clive. It all makes sense now. 

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Aberystwyth bust refers to the style of bust which was introduced towards the end of tun and used simultaneously at both Tower and Aberystwyth mints.

The prototype Tower bust was Sharp's E5. Variations on the theme were produced with single/double arched crowns, large and small bust sizes and variations in decoration. These form Group E coins (Sharp's Fx where x is a number from 1-7). Some busts are rare, others very common.

Concurrent with the Tower group F coins was the output from Thomas Bushell's mint at Aberystwyth which opened in 1638. These used the same bust and is the source of the name.

For the definitive read, look at Michael Sharp's article in the 1977 BNJ where both Tower and Aberystwyth coins are illustrated.

FYI, 1628-9 anchor is a very rare mark for silver with only £5 of silver in the pyx. Only Negro's Head and Heart had less silver. Compare this to £113 for 1638-9 anchor and closer to £200 for the entire period when the Aberystwyth busts were used.

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On ‎22‎/‎03‎/‎2017 at 9:13 PM, Sword said:

Thanks Richard. Your endorsement regarding a Charles I shilling is indeed most reassuring. :)

I don't mind exposing my ignorance in asking the following questions. The mm anchor would either date it to 1628-9 or 1638-9 according to Spink. However since S2797 can have mm triangle as well, I guess the year must be 1638-9. Is that correct?

I have always assumed the Roman numeral (XII in this case) is the Regnal year. Having said that, I am now rather confused as the same Roman numeral can have several  different mintmarks which doesn't make sense if it is really the Regnal Year.

I think this coin has the "Aberystwyth" bust. Am I correct? If so is it referring to the Aberystwyth branch mint?

Yes, as Rob says about the issue date.  All pyx listed as follows:

Lis           7 Jul 1625-29 Jun 1626

Cross Calv   29 Jun 1626-27 Apr 1627

Negro Head   29 Jun 1626-27 Apr 1627

Castle       27 Apr 1627- 3 Jul 1628

Anchor        3 Jul 1628-26 Jun 1629

Heart        26 Jun 1629-23 Jun 1630

Plumes       23 Jun 1630-30 Jun 1631

Rose         30 Jun 1631-21 Jun 1632

Harp         21 Jun 1632-11 Jul 1633

Portcullis   11 Jul 1633-27 Jun 1634

Bell         27 Jun 1634-18 Jun 1635

Crown        18 Jun 1635-14 Feb 1636

Tun          14 Feb 1636- 8 May 1638

Anchor        8 May 1638- 4 Jul 1639

Triangle      4 Jul 1639-26 Jun 1640

Star         26 Jun 1640-15 Jul 1641

Tri in circ  15 Jul 1641-28 May 1643

(P)          29 May 1643-15 Jul 1644

(R)          15 Jul 1644-12 May 1645

Eye          12 May 1645-10 Nov 1645

Sun          10 Nov 1645-15 Feb 1647

Sceptre      15 Feb 1647- mid 1649

Charles I is both a good reign to start with (in terms of volume of output and variation of designs and denominations) and challenging (like all hammered coinage, finding a decent strike on a nice round flan, with little wear when, by their very nature hand struck coins were of variable quality; the sheer number of different designs (including some real rarities) if you want a comprehensive collection ...) 

However Michael Sharp's article Rob mentions is a very good start.  You can read it here as a pdf:  BNJ 1977 Sharp Article.  The scanned plates aren't brilliant but will give you an idea.  The (Sharp) group F coins are illustrated in Plate VII, nos 44-  My example is #52  

And... welcome to the dark hammered side!  :D

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Many thanks for sharing your expertise gents. I think collecting is a lot more fun when one has at least some background knowledge. I will read the Sharp Article with interest later on.

9 hours ago, TomGoodheart said:

And... welcome to the dark hammered side!  :D

And yes, I do get a lot of excitement when learning about and (occasionally venturing into)  the dark side. :)

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I shan't add long lists (I tried, unsuccessfully, to edit the pyx dates list to make it smaller!) but if you do decide you want to specialise on the period, there are a few auction catalogues and a book that have a good number of illustrations of coins of the period and which I find helpful for reference.  Just let me know Sword.

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9 hours ago, TomGoodheart said:

I shan't add long lists (I tried, unsuccessfully, to edit the pyx dates list to make it smaller!) but if you do decide you want to specialise on the period, there are a few auction catalogues and a book that have a good number of illustrations of coins of the period and which I find helpful for reference.  Just let me know Sword.

Many thanks indeed. But I don't think I will be in a position to specialise anytime soon. At the moment, my approach is to buy coins which have eye appeal for me and then find out more about them afterwards. However, my modest hobby budget means that it can a while between purchases...

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We've got another fish on the line! Reel 'im in chaps, reel 'im in! :)

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