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The Coinery

Penny - 1902 - Kings Norton Trial Piece

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The only information I have on this coin is as follows:

"Kings Norton Metal Company Trial piece. Obverse: Bust right within raised inner circle and outer border of linked circles, no legend. Reverse: KINGS NORTON METAL CO L.D around an border of linked circles, this encircling 10 small circles and a further border of linked circles, the cypher KNM within. Weight 10.19 grammes"

It is a lovely quirky coin which I bought last year. It is slabbed by CGS at grade 65 which is GEF grade to non Coin Coffin Collectors.

The Obverse is worn and could possibly be a weak strike as it certainly won't be a worn die.

It is the only one known to CGS and I would appreciate any information upon it for my records

img-1.jpg

 

img-9.jpg

Edited by The Coinery
The photo of the reverse was too small so I replaced it
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Not a clue, though would be interested if for sale. Saves getting a 1918 or 1919 which is a design I already have.

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10 minutes ago, Rob said:

Not a clue, though would be interested if for sale. Saves getting a 1918 or 1919 which is a design I already have.

Hi Rob

With me being a novice I don't understand the connection between my 1902 penny and the 1918/19 ones.

Sorry to ask what is such a "Rookie" question but I would appreciate an in-depth reply

Regards

Guy

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Nordle has caused me a problem now - Just when I thought i was getting to near complete my Edward VII penny collection he shows me another addition

Muchas Gracias Amigo  :-)

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6 minutes ago, The Coinery said:

Nordle has caused me a problem now - Just when I thought i was getting to near complete my Edward VII penny collection he shows me another addition

Muchas Gracias Amigo  :-)

De nada y lo siento.

Also, the blurb in the LCA bit mentions the following;

"...possibly the only known example, we note similar in style to the lots 383 and 384 in the J.Tansley Collection DNW 28/9/2005 (realised £460 and £800 hammer price respectively), these two pieces on flans of 10.12 grammes and 10.25 grammes"

Which eludes to 2 more examples of the one you were looking for.

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6 minutes ago, The Coinery said:

Hi Rob

With me being a novice I don't understand the connection between my 1902 penny and the 1918/19 ones.

Sorry to ask what is such a "Rookie" question but I would appreciate an in-depth reply

Regards

Guy

Simple. I just want an example struck at King's Norton. The current gap is either a 1918KN or 1919KN, but I already have the design with a Heaton, albeit with Freeman dies 1+A instead of 2+B, so I suppose a regular penny of the mint would pass the non-duplication criteria, but it is difficult to get excited about the (minute) differences.

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That look very much like the same coin as mine but with far more detail.

Are you doing this to upset me ?

 

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2 minutes ago, The Coinery said:

That look very much like the same coin as mine but with far more detail.

Are you doing this to upset me ?

 

Ah sorry Guy I thought you were looking for one :D I obviously mis-read your comment.

However, there seems to be more information in those lots about the coin in question so you might get something extra for your records..

The first example also seems to be missing the border rings on the obverse, maybe a weak strike but I can't spot a hint of them. Perhaps a different trial design?

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3 minutes ago, Rob said:

Simple. I just want an example struck at King's Norton. The current gap is either a 1918KN or 1919KN, but I already have the design with a Heaton, albeit with Freeman dies 1+A instead of 2+B, so I suppose a regular penny of the mint would pass the non-duplication criteria, but it is difficult to get excited about the (minute) differences.

I understand now. You are referring to coins minted by the Kings Norton mint. I told you it was a rookie mistake. Thank you for taking the time to explain - Appreciated !

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2 minutes ago, Nordle11 said:

Ah sorry Guy I thought you were looking for one :D I obviously mis-read your comment.

However, there seems to be more information in those lots about the coin in question so you might get something extra for your records..

The first example also seems to be missing the border rings on the obverse, maybe a weak strike but I can't spot a hint of them. Perhaps a different trial design?

The coin in the photo is mine in my collection. I have searched for info and come up empty handed. I did enjoy you motto: There are 2 types of people in this world, those with the ability to extrapolate information from missing data -    This obviously applies to me :-)

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29 minutes ago, Rob said:

Not a clue, though would be interested if for sale. Saves getting a 1918 or 1919 which is a design I already have.

Do you have any Pennies or other denomination Edward VII to swap or sell in a deal for this ?

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1 minute ago, The Coinery said:

The coin in the photo is mine in my collection. I have searched for info and come up empty handed. I did enjoy you motto: There are 2 types of people in this world, those with the ability to extrapolate information from missing data -    This obviously applies to me :-)

Thanks :)

So are you looking for provenance or information on the trial piece itself?

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10 minutes ago, The Coinery said:

Do you have any Pennies or other denomination Edward VII to swap or sell in a deal for this ?

No. I have an Edward VII penny which is good enough for the design. G5 will be an example of each obverse and reverse plus a Lavrillier, Victoria an early and late bust plus a Minton. I might stretch to a beaded and a toothed border. G6 with and without IND IMP, E2 with a 1953 and a later one without BRITT OMN. That's it for bronze pennies unless an Ed8 appeared, but I'm not holding my breath.

I might have a spare Cnut.

Edited by Rob

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Provenance I have some from the collector I bought it from.

To get provenance before this without paperwork would be near impossible.

I would appreciate any information on this coin as I strive to learn as much as I can about my coins as when I retire I have intentions of a book.

All contributors will get a mention - your pseudonym could be "Señor español dinero"

I am going to PM you some thing to look at . . . .

 

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Obverse looks badly struck on purpose , or the die is deliberately weak - I havent a clue why.

Neither coin has suffered wear

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15 minutes ago, The Coinery said:

Provenance I have some from the collector I bought it from.

To get provenance before this without paperwork would be near impossible.

I would appreciate any information on this coin as I strive to learn as much as I can about my coins as when I retire I have intentions of a book.

All contributors will get a mention - your pseudonym could be "Señor español dinero"

I am going to PM you some thing to look at . . . .

 

In which case I think it was from when KN were trying to secure rights to supply blanks for the London Mint, and having the equipment themselves to actually strike coins they wanted to create examples of what they could produce as well. I suspect that's what lead to them being brought in in 1918 & 1919, although as has been noted the obverse is very weakly struck which might explain why they were attempting to produce examples during Eddy's reign and didn't actually create any pennies until a decade later.

Attempts at expansion I would guess.

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It could of course be a trial with a colonial issue in mind given there hadn't been a KN British currency piece before, and even Heatons hadn't done any production runs for the RM since the RM refurbishment of 1882. Both H & KN were regularly striking colonial issues. In that case it wouldn't tick a box for me.

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Lets hope I have the ability to extrapolate information from missing data then

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7 minutes ago, copper123 said:

Obverse looks badly struck on purpose , or the die is deliberately weak - I havent a clue why.

Neither coin has suffered wear

Never thought of that. Possibly it was a mock up to show the Head Coinier at KN as making dies then was a labour intensive operation.

Good observation !

 

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could have been because they wanted a good strike on the reverse - it was well known that the problems with striking pennies started in edwards reign because of the large  amounts  of metal the design of the obverse used.

Do realise as these were trial pieces they could have been produced well after 1902 , in otherwords the date don't mean anything

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54 minutes ago, copper123 said:

could have been because they wanted a good strike on the reverse - it was well known that the problems with striking pennies started in edwards reign because of the large  amounts  of metal the design of the obverse used.

Do realise as these were trial pieces they could have been produced well after 1902 , in otherwords the date don't mean anything

they could have borrowed an obverse die from the royal mint birmingham to london was not a long way

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