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jacinbox

TPGCs & 3D printing

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It would be simple to make moulds, casts and dies using 3D printing technology. A roll of mint 1905 half-crowns could cost as little as £49.99, only because silver blanks would be needed. A scary prospect for numismatists that could kill our little hobby, should we be worried? Could TPGCs hold the key to such a problem?

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Not too worried. If you're a serious collector who is buying coins that are deemed valuable enough to copy, you should already know your stuff.

The same problems come with this as with casting too, you copy the original coin LFL so any imperfections/knocks/tell tale signs will be seen on every subsequent coin.

Definitely brings the cost of making forgeries right down though.

I think due diligence and communication will be the key to such a problem.

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I'm sure I've seen on YouTube a laser machine that images the coin and makes an exact replica

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On 10/24/2016 at 6:40 AM, Nordle11 said:

Not too worried. If you're a serious collector who is buying coins that are deemed valuable enough to copy, you should already know your stuff.

The same problems come with this as with casting too, you copy the original coin LFL so any imperfections/knocks/tell tale signs will be seen on every subsequent coin.

Definitely brings the cost of making forgeries right down though.

I think due diligence and communication will be the key to such a problem.

Provenance will also be key. Having a paper trail of where coins come from along with photos (where possible) which detail any identifying marks.

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On 29/10/2016 at 11:34 AM, azda said:

I'm sure I've seen on YouTube a laser machine that images the coin and makes an exact replica

Exactly, which is why it is important to look beyond the present. With the current technology one can make exact replicas. Moreover once a scan is captured the softcopy can be doctored to create flaws that will be unique to each coin produced. This will take care of Matt’s point that replicas will mirror the originals in the flaws that they carry.

On 29/10/2016 at 1:08 PM, jaggy said:

Provenance will also be key.

A BIG YES but how do we know how many specimens of a given genuine article exist? For instance everyone knows that an 1864 penny is very scarce in unc, yet no one knows exactly how many of these exist in UNC currently or where they are. How then will one tell a replica and a genuine article, possibly saved in a vault for the last 150 years, apart?

Unless we have something that can tell the composition of the platchet apart or something, like Carbon 14 dating, that can pin point the exact time of when a platchet was manufactured; it is going to get very difficult for everyone. Possibly something we should all plan for and for all we know it might be the next biggest thing since TPGCs as far as numismatics is concerned.

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The exact chemical composition (including the percentages of all the trace metals) of the planchet is very difficult to reproduce. I was on a course in the assay office in London and they told me that they can date metal objects by a goldsmith or silversmith by the percentages of trace elements. This can be used to check if a hallmark was faked. 

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1 hour ago, Sword said:

The exact chemical composition (including the percentages of all the trace metals) of the planchet is very difficult to reproduce. I was on a course in the assay office in London and they told me that they can date metal objects by a goldsmith or silversmith by the percentages of trace elements. This can be used to check if a hallmark was faked. 

If the faker was diligent though they would use contemporary raw materials to produce the copy (eg melted down low grade coins of the right era) and then the trace elements would appear to be correct.

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That's possible. But I think it would be easier to fake hammered coins. The dies must be much easier to fake than milled dies due to the crude designs. Get totally worn pieces and then hammer out VF or EF examples. There is no need to even melt the original coins and so you don't have to worry about introducing new trace impurities etc.

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15 hours ago, Sword said:

That's possible. But I think it would be easier to fake hammered coins. The dies must be much easier to fake than milled dies due to the crude designs. Get totally worn pieces and then hammer out VF or EF examples. There is no need to even melt the original coins and so you don't have to worry about introducing new trace impurities etc.

Absolutely no chance, fakes of hammered coins are far easier to spot than milled. Gothic crowns are a great example of how difficult it is, the density of hammered coinage is a real problem plus crudeness of design and the flan being so thin coupled by weight

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Plenty of fakes around already especially early young head halfcrowns. Although I think I can spot them not so sure about new collectors. Sellers of these on ebay for the most part offer them as replicas. However I have seen second generation sellers offering them as genuine. All fakes have the ability to affect collectors' confidence.

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Thought someone may have had an opinion on fakes flooding the market. Perhaps you are happy being ripped off?

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On 31/10/2016 at 7:42 PM, Nick said:

If the faker was diligent though they would use contemporary raw materials to produce the copy (eg melted down low grade coins of the right era) and then the trace elements would appear to be correct.

I'm sure I've read that this has actually been done.

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