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UPINSMOKE

New to coin Collecting Help Needed

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Definitely the top one of those two, but I'd echo azda's concerns about the lighting.  The coin is probably fine (as in proper, not as in grade) but there is an element of doubt.  Looks like they're double florins rather than florins?

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Well have finished buying my bulk of coins some 120 in total so that will keep me quite for a while. Most were farthings some 50 odd will post some pics when I get them to get some feedback on if I am on the right track with conditions. I also did take your advice and bought some coins from too of the website you gave me. But tonight I spotted a 1899 Half Crown  UNCIRCULATED WITH LUSTRE  for £175 is this a correct price for such a coin was think I would get it, but would like some guidance please.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1899-HALF-CROWN-VICTORIA-OLD-HEAD-HIGH-GRADE-/381672378315?hash=item58dd724fcb:g:eK0AAOSweW5U8HOC

Edited by UPINSMOKE

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Initial reaction -  over-graded, over-priced, and looks dipped, avoid

My example of an old head half crown cost £130 and is much better than the one you are looking at imo

1893_hc_02_cgs_78_uin_30548_1300.png

Tip - on eBay, wherever you see 'Make offer', do so - it means the seller will accept less than the BIN price ;)

Also, expect some toning on old silver coins - if there isn't, ask yourself why?

 

Edited by Paulus

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I think that 1899 crown was definitely overpriced.  Quite nice, but not worth that kind of cash IMO.

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Well I am a bit late in seeing these comments as I have jumped in and bought it. :o I did not pay the asking price though got it for £140 including postage. I may have well paid over the odds but I liked it. 

Perhaps someone could explain why you go for toning in coin and not a bright one. I would like to know if this effects prices  or is just a personal preference, very green when it comes to this. Still waiting on a book for  reference.

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It depends on bright. There is bright as in dipped which is more a case of personal preference, or bright as in polished which reduces value and is generally avoided. A coin with natural random toning is less likely to have been cleaned in the past as cleaning usually results in a very even tone, maybe because a dip or polish must surely leave a chemical deposit on the surface. There are a few threads on the forum regarding toning including this one http://www.predecimal.com/forum/topic/9647-lets-see-your-toned-english-milled-silver/?page=1

 

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A bit heavy on the price,maybe it is the pictures but I suspect it has been treated to a swim in Godards silver dip. I don't mind the product and it can be used to improve a coin with isolated bad staining.

I would want the bees knees for £140. An unc example books at £100. If it looks nice in hand (maybe not so bright).

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1 hour ago, UPINSMOKE said:

Well I am a bit late in seeing these comments as I have jumped in and bought it. :o I did not pay the asking price though got it for £140 including postage. I may have well paid over the odds but I liked it. 

Perhaps someone could explain why you go for toning in coin and not a bright one. I would like to know if this effects prices  or is just a personal preference, very green when it comes to this. Still waiting on a book for  reference.

The problem with the coin is that you have paid a decent price for an uncirculated coin (Book price for UNC is about what you paid), but the coin isn't uncirculated despite what the seller claims in the listing. At best it is Near EF, meaning that a price of around £80-90 would be nearer the mark. How can you tell the grade? Examine the tiny St George and the Dragon at the base of the reverse and you can see that George's lance has been worn into the body of the horse, meaning that the coin has had limited but clear wear in its life. Therefore, it isn't UNC, and based on the wear I'd say that NEF is a better grading. Still a nice coin, but not worth £175 or anywhere near it.

Edited by DaveG38

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7 minutes ago, DaveG38 said:

Examine the tiny St George and the Dragon at the base of the reverse and you can see that George's lance has been worn into the body of the horse, meaning that the coin has had limited but clear wear in its life.

Well your eyes are better than mine, I can't even see the lance. :huh:  Well the damage has been done now. Although they do give a 30 day money back if not satisfied so will wait till it arrives.

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I have to say I agree with Dave's estimate on the price and nearly said in my previous post that about £90 would be fair enough buying price (I looked at the listing and kind-of-guessed that you'd already dived in... ;)).  But hey - you like the coin (as do I), it's an 1899, you've learned something, and sometimes you don't mind paying a premium for the convenience of enjoying it sooner.  :)

 

I've been guilty of this in the past, most notably with a Godless Florin that I bought from a dealer about 18 months ago.  I can now see that it was overgraded, overpriced, and economical with the truth in its description (the coin has an edge knock that I didn't spot from the picture and wasn't mentioned in the description).  There's a much nicer one currently for sale on a different dealer's website at the moment for £20 less than I paid for mine.  You live and learn.  I haven't bought from this dealer again...

 

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Exhibit A (my photos).  Graded NEF by the selling dealer and cost me £110 plus postage.  See the edge knock at 6 o'clock on the obverse.

N%20Florin%201849%20Godless%20Obverse_zp

N%20Florin%201849%20Godless%20Reverse_zp

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A few sub-conscious rules of thumb help here. Apart from the obvious 'If it seems too good to be true - it probably is', it is also worth remembering that the number of genuinely uncirculated pieces from 120 years ago or whatever is tiny. A fraction of one per cent would be appropriate. Everybody wants them, so vendors satisfy the market by selling things labelled appropriately. That is why it is imperative that collectors learn to grade first and foremost, Ebay is not an appropriate place to learn grading skills.

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I wouldn't get too hung up on wanting genuinely uncirculated coins though.  Something that's had a bit of life but still looks in decent age-appropriate nick has a lot to recommend it.  Trouble is, finding these kind of VF to EF coins with nice eye appeal is often pretty hard too!

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11 minutes ago, Stuntman said:

Exhibit A (my photos).  Graded NEF by the selling dealer and cost me £110 plus postage.  See the edge knock at 6 o'clock on the obverse.

N%20Florin%201849%20Godless%20Obverse_zp

N%20Florin%201849%20Godless%20Reverse_zp

That's horribly overgraded. I sold this one as a good EF on the grounds it couldn't be unc.

 

01900.jpg

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That's lovely.  Although mine was graded NEF rather than gEF.  What would you give mine?  I'd give it VF, reverse better.

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Good fine, cleaned. The obverse maybe a bit better. :(

 

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Mine's graded UNC by CGS, but I think that's a little generous

1849_florin_03_ww_01_cgs_78_uin_2175_130

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Thanks again for all the info. Can you recomend a good eye glass as my eyes aren't as good as they were. So I think I may need one. And what do you use to handle your coins tweezers or gloves.

Just bought this would be interested to know what you would grade this and an aprox price you would pay that way I can compare it with what I actually paid this time 

3 Pence Silver.JPG

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Show us the other side, the George V obverse is often quite poorly struck on these.  The coin may well have little wear but be quite poorly struck, if that makes sense.  
As to price - a fiver?

Edited by Stuntman

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Thanks for the input cannot show other side as it was not shown. I took a punt on this as I caught the auction in the last 30 seconds so a bit of a impulse buy. I paid £5 including postage so spot on thanks.

Edited by UPINSMOKE

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Hi just spotted these on ebay and want some advice ASAP as it ends in 3 hours what price would be a good offer on these or should I leave alone.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VICTORIA-HALF-CROWNS-1887-TO-1892-FULL-SET-CASED-UNCIRCULATED-/301982708518?hash=item464f927326:g:jLIAAOSwfZhXNK7S

 

Regards Mick

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1 hour ago, UPINSMOKE said:

Thanks again for all the info. Can you recomend a good eye glass as my eyes aren't as good as they were. So I think I may need one. And what do you use to handle your coins tweezers or gloves.

Just bought this would be interested to know what you would grade this and an aprox price you would pay that way I can compare it with what I actually paid this time 

3 Pence Silver.JPG

I wouldn't dream of using tweezers! Gloves and only by the edge.

I prefer a large magnifying glass with a light, or blowing up my photographs to show detail

I never buy when the coin only has a pic of one side, 9 times out of 10 that is because the other side has issues, but yes about a fiver delivered if the Obv is ok. This one could be sterling silver (.925 - Spink 4015) or .500 (S. 4026), does the seller indicate?

Edited by Paulus

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9 minutes ago, UPINSMOKE said:

Hi just spotted these on ebay and want some advice ASAP as it ends in 3 hours what price would be a good offer on these or should I leave alone.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VICTORIA-HALF-CROWNS-1887-TO-1892-FULL-SET-CASED-UNCIRCULATED-/301982708518?hash=item464f927326:g:jLIAAOSwfZhXNK7S

 

Regards Mick

Wow you are certainly on a mission.  Can't comment on grade or value sorry but if it was me spending that sort of money I would want to see them before parting with my money. 

Note that seller says returns not accepted

Just my opinion but your call at the end of the day :)

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12 minutes ago, UPINSMOKE said:

Hi just spotted these on ebay and want some advice ASAP as it ends in 3 hours what price would be a good offer on these or should I leave alone.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VICTORIA-HALF-CROWNS-1887-TO-1892-FULL-SET-CASED-UNCIRCULATED-/301982708518?hash=item464f927326:g:jLIAAOSwfZhXNK7S

 

Regards Mick

For that sort of outlay I would want better pictures and the option to return them if I wasn't happy but as Jon points out, no returns accepted.

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Just now, jon said:

Wow you are certainly on a mission.  Can't comment on grade or value sorry but if it was me spending that sort of money I would want to see them before parting with my money. 

Note that seller says returns not accepted

Just my opinion but your call at the end of the day :)

Just wanted an indication on price really did offer £300 for them but has come back with counter offer so not sure if I should go for it.

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