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VickySilver

DNW - Coins Going Cheaply?

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Prices at DNW seem low now, I got the very nice 1841 shilling at 420.

 

The 60/59 seemed a bargain at 1300 - not me tho.

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I have won three so far. Two under low estimate and one over high estimate. So a mixed bag so far.

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I got one, mid estimate, missed another which went way over. But I like the format.

Jerry

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I got one and missed one

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I really liked the only "major" winning, the 1841 shilling.

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On 08/06/2016 at 1:52 PM, VickySilver said:

Prices at DNW seem low now, I got the very nice 1841 shilling at 420.

 

The 60/59 seemed a bargain at 1300 - not me tho.

Was it the same coin that Lockdales withdrew?

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I think so, but a more careful checker would be a better source! LOL.

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Will have to compare pictures.

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I'm bumping this topic.

I am looking at the DNW catalogue for the upcoming september auction and it seems to me that the estimates are low, at least the few that I have randomly looked at (multiple silver lots with Victoria OH and Edward VII, all around £100-200). I have never bid there.

Is it part of the auction house's strategy to attract bidders? Are DNW renowned for setting low estimates? Or maybe is that they make wonderful photographs and grade high?

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DNW estimates are generally a bit on the low side, but they do depend on any reserve required by the vendor.  I would say that DNW photographs are pretty good and that the coins are usually slightly better in hand than you would expect from the photos.

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1 hour ago, Leo said:

I'm bumping this topic.

I am looking at the DNW catalogue for the upcoming september auction and it seems to me that the estimates are low, at least the few that I have randomly looked at (multiple silver lots with Victoria OH and Edward VII, all around £100-200). I have never bid there.

Is it part of the auction house's strategy to attract bidders? Are DNW renowned for setting low estimates? Or maybe is that they make wonderful photographs and grade high?

Thanks for the heads up. Having just previewed, there's one of great interest for me in that auction 

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I "won" a lot with DNW about 4-5 yrs ago and paid SEVEN TIMES estimate!

 

I think they do this to attract bidders - if you think the better bits will go near estimate, then good luck. Be ready to pay above catalogue if you have to have a particular bit.

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Probably a mistake to look too closely at the estimates. I usually do a bit of research in the various auction archives to try to see what comparable coins have sold for. Quality coins often sell for over estimate and sometimes for well over estimate. The buyer really needs to take a view as to what he/she is willing to pay to win the coin rather than getting hung up on the estimate. Sometimes you will get lucky and there is not a lot of competition. Sometimes you will have to pay up to get that coin.

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Indeed

On the subject of price research - do any of you hold a premium account in acsearch? I wonder if it's worth for british coinage as I think DNW, LC and Spink are not listed.

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59 minutes ago, Leo said:

Indeed

On the subject of price research - do any of you hold a premium account in acsearch? I wonder if it's worth for british coinage as I think DNW, LC and Spink are not listed.

I don't. I generally look on the DNW and London Coins sites. I will also check prices at Heritage in the USA.

i have tended to buy primarily from auctions. However, I am softening that stance. By the time you add in the buyers premium (17.5% at Heritage and LC and 20% at DNW) then auctions are not necessarily the cheapest. 

For the first time I have bought a coin from Atlas Numismatics here in the USA. So no buyers premium and postage and packing is included as I live in the USA. Depending on the coin, that can make them - and other dealers - quite competitive.

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3 hours ago, jaggy said:

I don't. I generally look on the DNW and London Coins sites. I will also check prices at Heritage in the USA.

i have tended to buy primarily from auctions. However, I am softening that stance. By the time you add in the buyers premium (17.5% at Heritage and LC and 20% at DNW) then auctions are not necessarily the cheapest. 

For the first time I have bought a coin from Atlas Numismatics here in the USA. So no buyers premium and postage and packing is included as I live in the USA. Depending on the coin, that can make them - and other dealers - quite competitive.

Atlas also buy from auctions, they will add the auction price plus their 99.99% premium on top as they did with the penny offerings, checking coinarcheives always brings up previous auctions realised prices from DNW, Spink and LCs along with Heritage and Stacks

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5 hours ago, jaggy said:

Probably a mistake to look too closely at the estimates. I usually do a bit of research in the various auction archives to try to see what comparable coins have sold for. Quality coins often sell for over estimate and sometimes for well over estimate. The buyer really needs to take a view as to what he/she is willing to pay to win the coin rather than getting hung up on the estimate. Sometimes you will get lucky and there is not a lot of competition. Sometimes you will have to pay up to get that coin.

Quality coins ALWAYS sell over estimate, it's the climate these days

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1 hour ago, azda said:

Atlas also buy from auctions, they will add the auction price plus their 99.99% premium on top as they did with the penny offerings, checking coinarcheives always brings up previous auctions realised prices from DNW, Spink and LCs along with Heritage and Stacks

I am sure they do. As I said, it depends on the coin. But, for the coin I just bought, when I factored in my estimate of the cost of buying in an auction, plus the buyers premium, plus postage and packing, the Atlas price for the coin was pretty competitive with what I would pay at auction.

Obviously, one needs to have a view as to what a coin 'should' cost. For my area of interest, which are sixpences, I generally have a perspective as to what a coin should cost and from being active in the auction marketplace over the past few years, I have a good idea what a given coin will probably go for. So you look for where you think you will get the best price.

For me, auctions are likely to remain my primary source of coins. But I have no problem using reputable dealers if they have the coin I want at a competitive price.

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Very good advice Jaggy. 

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Thank you all for the information!

Quote

Quality coins ALWAYS sell over estimate, it's the climate these days

Isn't that good? Or just a fad? When I was a kid quality was not as important and just wanted every year of every type no matter how worn it was. Now it's more about getting a common date in stunning condition rather than the key date in a mediocre state. With cheap coins too.

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3 minutes ago, Leo said:

Thank you all for the information!

Isn't that good? Or just a fad? When I was a kid quality was not as important and just wanted every year of every type no matter how worn it was. Now it's more about getting a common date in stunning condition rather than the key date in a mediocre state. With cheap coins too.

The quality factor kicked in around 2008, everyone was wanting coins in tip top grade, VFs or lower just weren't cutting the mustard at this point

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3 hours ago, azda said:

The quality factor kicked in around 2008, everyone was wanting coins in tip top grade, VFs or lower just weren't cutting the mustard at this point

I have certainly become more 'picky' over quality/grade in my old age.

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A blogger I follow is in the opinion that the trend-setting coin collecting power is the US, and everything that happens over there eventually comes to Europe, albeit with a delay.

E.g. the preference for exquisite graded coins, the premium carried by 'rainbow' toning, or their obsession with getting the coins certified and slabbed.

4 hours ago, azda said:

The quality factor kicked in around 2008, everyone was wanting coins in tip top grade

Funny, with the recession and all... in Spain the market of coins suffered very badly, as traditionally coins are seen as a safe investment, for all purchasing power classes

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Well, I think we all want to get the best grade we can and better coins have always cost more than those in a lower grade.

For me, the big difference in the market today compared to when I started collecting is its internationalisation. With the advent of online auctions and the availability of good photos (Spink excepted) you can pretty much buy from anywhere. The other difference, although I think it is smaller, is the entry of investors into the coin market.

Clearly, the USA is a huge market and their buying power will influence trends. But internationalisation will push the trend for greater standardisation so that buyers, no matter where they are situated, know what they are getting. That, for me, is where TPG and slabbing comes in. 

I have always been an agnostic when it comes to TPG and slabbing. Most of my coins are 'raw' and those that are slabbed are as a result of an accident of purchase rather than a conscious decision. However, I have noticed on here a gradual change in opinions with regard to slabbing over the past few years and there is certainly a greater acceptance of it than there was. That might be reflective of a gradual change in the UK market and one which CGS was trying to exploit.

As someone who lives in the USA, I do wonder whether I should be having my raw coins slabbed if only to protect their economic value in this market. 

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Jaggy, which British coins have the most demand in the US, international and investment market? Am I right to think sovereigns and gothic crowns?

From all the Spanish coinage, there is one piece whose market prices have been maintained high through the recession, thanks to international demand: the 8 real. The reason is that the US collectors are interested in it because it was legal tender there at some point. A good collection of 8 reales coins, VF+ and slabbed, is a good looking pension fund

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