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VickySilver

Not for the Bargain Hunters: Atlas Numismatics

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I'm sure readers have seen the Atlas Numismatics site? Atlasnumismatics.com

 

I note that there are some nice coins on the positive side, but the prices are -well - scintillating to say the least. A gold 1935 Jubilee Crown listed at the bargain price of $195,000! I would hope that is just for a starting bargaining position. Most prices are IMO 40-100% or more on the "optimistic" side. The dealer must have access to considerable resources to even control such stock, but what might all of us think of what this does as far as upwards pressure put on the prices of scarcer bits of milled coinage?

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They have some really nice coins,worth having a look at the site just to look at the pictures.

Although yes Vicky they are not cheap :)

 

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I have looked at a lot of their coins for the last few months but as VS states they are not cheap at all! I would love to add a few of them to my collection but their prices are over the top in most cases.

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Indeed very expensive, I've wanted a couple of their coins before but would never pay the prices they're asking for.

I wonder what makes up the bulk of their sales if the higher end pieces cost so much, they've obviously got the capital to have so much in stock...

 

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Looks like at least 70-80% higher than the market price on average. I guess they are counting on people with deep pockets who do not have the time to search for what they want and are prepared to pay a higher price just to buy it there and then.

Must say they do have some nice ones though.

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I had a look through their site trying to find a 'comp'. And, indeed I did! A 1790 Pattern sixpence by Droz. Their coin is graded PF66. Mine is a GEF (DNW grading)  although, in my opinion, their coin is over graded (and possibly mine is a rather conservative grading). Anyway, their coin costs 3 times what I paid for mine; 1,115 pounds ($1,595) compared to 366 pounds fully 'juiced'.

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They inhaled many of the Gerald Jackson pennies for a song, and then were able to resell at very good prices. Kudos to them. those were some of the greatest quality currency pennies I have seen, period.

 

Still, the cited gold crown example is a bit over the top as well IMO as these at auction have pretty well been stuck at the 28-35k pounds level for a good decade.

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Another 'comp' ..... an 1816 MS64 sixpence selling for 2.3 times what I paid for my MS65 sixpence of the same date.

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Thank goodness he hasn't got any coins that I am looking for. They might as well be trapped in the British Museum !

Lovely coins though.

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25 minutes ago, Bernie said:

Thank goodness he hasn't got any coins that I am looking for. They might as well be trapped in the British Museum !

Lovely coins though.

He does have one that I would really like and which would fit in really well with my collection. But at $3500 I think I will wait till one shows up at auction.

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I recall last year I was the under-bidder on a rare proof penny.   At the time I figured that another collector simply wanted the coin more than I did. It turns out that it was not another collector as shortly thereafter the coin appeared for sale on the Atlas site.

 

 

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Interesting in that they were willing to go "auction retail" and then charge at least 40 % above that in all likelihood.

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20 minutes ago, VickySilver said:

Interesting in that they were willing to go "auction retail" and then charge at least 40 % above that in all likelihood.

Presumably the business model works and they have a market at those prices.

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Expensive coins, yes, they certainly are.  But, I have purchased 3-4 items from Atlas in the past year.  And, I have never paid their asking price, so they do budge from their posted prices.  If you don't like the coin, you don't have to buy it.  Pretty simple.  I will say most all of their inventory has extremely high eye appeal -- which you can never buy at "retail".  And, their customer service is superb.

I'd be interested to see some of the supposed "comps" that @jaggy is referencing, because I have seen plenty of washed out gray 1816 sixpences, and I'd pay more for the MS64 they have on their site (posted pic below) than an MS65 pedestrian gray example.

 

1816_sixpence.jpg

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Don't think the quality of their coins are in dispute, and most seem to agree that can charge whatever they will. Good for you in getting them to negotiate on price. Jaggy has shown a pretty good eye IMO in the purchases he has shared with us. I just think it is a bit cheeky to quadruple or quintuple a price on a particular coin; good if they get it, but perhaps a bit excessive. I only broached the subject in that they seem have taken this business model, and think if a few more dealers were to take this approach that it would change the market in the coins we like. Maybe that is just longing for the good ole days, but a bit sad also.

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2 minutes ago, VickySilver said:

Don't think the quality of their coins are in dispute, and most seem to agree that can charge whatever they will. Good for you in getting them to negotiate on price. Jaggy has shown a pretty good eye IMO in the purchases he has shared with us. I just think it is a bit cheeky to quadruple or quintuple a price on a particular coin; good if they get it, but perhaps a bit excessive. I only broached the subject in that they seem have taken this business model, and think if a few more dealers were to take this approach that it would change the market in the coins we like. Maybe that is just longing for the good ole days, but a bit sad also.

Well, if you're patient, and they have something that you like -- a great proportion of their inventory eventually ends up in Heritage Auctions.  Of course, you have to hope that no one else buys it before then, or talks them down to a reasonable price.  My purchases from Atlas are NOT large ones (never purchased an item that was listed for more than $600 on their site), but they have always treated me very well.  

I can't fault them for the model really.  They pick superbly eye appealing pieces, provide good (or better) images, and are completely open to returns if you're unhappy.  And, their model isn't unique among USA based coin dealers.  CRO (Coin Rarities Online) and a host of other dealers do very well selling to US-based buyers, as they do the leg work in picking absolutely stellar eye appealing coins.  The personal touch and quality are what people pay up for.  I'm a small fish in their big pond -- I'm only in the market for probably the bottom 5% of their priced items and they treat me very well.  I will buy from them again if they have something I fancy at a reasonable starting price.

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4 hours ago, brg5658 said:

Expensive coins, yes, they certainly are.  But, I have purchased 3-4 items from Atlas in the past year.  And, I have never paid their asking price, so they do budge from their posted prices.  If you don't like the coin, you don't have to buy it.  Pretty simple.  I will say most all of their inventory has extremely high eye appeal -- which you can never buy at "retail".  And, their customer service is superb.

I'd be interested to see some of the supposed "comps" that @jaggy is referencing, because I have seen plenty of washed out gray 1816 sixpences, and I'd pay more for the MS64 they have on their site (posted pic below) than an MS65 pedestrian gray example.

 

1816_sixpence.jpg

Personally, I think my example has more eye appeal (and wallet appeal) than their coin:

B6x0aO.jpg
dGMJp9.jpg

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2 hours ago, jaggy said:

Personally, I think my example has more eye appeal (and wallet appeal) than their coin:

B6x0aO.jpg
dGMJp9.jpg

Without a doubt.

Their coin has pretty ugly toning.

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I was really commenting on their high end bits...They were running quite a few Patina/INA items at 300 USD!

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15 minutes ago, VickySilver said:

I was really commenting on their high end bits...They were running quite a few Patina/INA items at 300 USD!

I have noticed they are running INA/Patina items at > $300, but I have also noticed they aren't selling any.  Asking and selling prices are 2 very different things.

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3 hours ago, jaggy said:

Personally, I think my example has more eye appeal (and wallet appeal) than their coin:

B6x0aO.jpg
dGMJp9.jpg

Yes, your coin is attractive.  My point was more an over-arching statement that coins aren't fungible based on labels and assigned grades by TPGs.  In general, to US collectors, coins with attractive obverse toning are considered more premium worthy.  Also, you have to know how to interpret the images that Atlas uses -- they photograph coins at an angle to bring out color, to the detriment of showing luster.  Alternatively, they just use the glamour shots from PCGS TrueViews.  I won't quibble over which coin is more attractive, but I certainly know which coin I would rather have in my collection.  It isn't always about the $300 vs. $100 for a coin like this.

Remember the Vicky 1899 Sixpence in the Heritage Auction for which you so freely told me I paid too much?  I really loved the coin, and I wanted it.  So, it was either pay the price within reason in the Heritage Auction, or wait for some dealer like CRO or Atlas to buy it and mark it up by 200%.  Sure, I could have had a so-so example for 1/3 what I paid, but I much prefer my coin.  Given I am a type collector (not a date/series collector), I'd rather have a stellar out of this world example hold that spot in my set, than have whatever ho-hum example comes along at a "good deal" price.  To each his/her own.  

1899_sixpence_PCGS_OGH_MS65_toned_compos

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For me, there are a number of aspects that go into desirability. Eye appeal is probably the most subjective. What you or I might find attractive in a coin may be different to what others find attractive. I remember as a child we always liked to get the new shiny coins and some collectors may well prefer a coin that looks like it has just come out of the mint.

Price is another variable. Still subjective but, perhaps, less so for some than for others. I take a view as to what a coin is worth. That can be over 'book' or over 'auction estimate' depending on my own criteria. Atlas do have a coin that I would be very interested in. But not at $3,500; market value is probably around $1,500 and with 'juice' would probably cost me around $1,800 at auction. So my high-end price would be around $2,500. I don't know how 'flexible' Atlas are on pricing as I have never dealt with them.

Your coin above is nice. I thought at the time that it was expensive. But I already had three examples of that coin. Not toned like yours but two of them are UNC and look great in the hand (i.e. not grey :) ).  One cost 30 pounds and the other 17 pounds. That is a huge price differential.

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They have some of the best selection of coins I want there but their prices aren't quite for me 90% of the time. They have a South Shields halfpenny which doesn't really seem to be in any better of a grade than my own which is NGC MS63 RB which I would love but at the same time physically couldn't drop that much cash on that ! 

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