Those 'Patina' retro fantasy Spink/INA issues

[Chris Perkins 223]

Many of you have probably heard of and even seen the odd Spink commissioned fantasy pattern coins made by INA Ltd of Birmingham and auctioned in 2001. I know that they were originally UK monarch obverses designed for some African commemorative issue of coins that never went ahead and that the obverses were then paired with newly designed reverses similar to contemporary coins (both UK types and colonial) and that they were issued in various metals/thicknesses. Donald Golder did the obverses and I think also many of the reverses. The quality is actually very high (for most of them). Some of the Edward VIII issues use a bust by Percy Metcalfe, which is interesting. A few seem to have sterling hallmarks on the edges too.

They were controversial at the time and many have been passed from dealer to dealer ever since! Most sell for just a few quid.

I've ended up with some and would love to know if anyone here has the original auction catalogue (Rob?) so that I can get to grips with them just in case I have a rare one among the few-pounds jobbies before I pass them all on to another dealer! Some of them have very, very low mintages, there are known mules and some can sell for decent money.

A couple of the '1879' young head Victoria crown sized issues are attached below. I think the silver coloured one is silver.

 

[Rob 3,002]

I've got the catalogue, but no spare. It's 100 pages and 1003 lots, so not really practical to scan. Spink sale 153, 11th July 2001 refers. Unfortunately, Spink's on-line sales archive only goes back to Slaney 1 (2003).

There is also the International Currency Bureau sale of similar foreign items at Glens in 1999. They give mintages too. Some are rather rare. I do have a spare of the latter.

[Chris Perkins 223]

Ok, well I'll take the Glens, how much inc postage to Germany? I don't mind returning the Spink 158 and paying recorded postage both ways, but I understand if you'd rather not risk losing the only one you have.

I think I've probably got about 100 different types, so may start getting on your nerves with questions ;). Do either catalogue include the weights? I think I probably have a couple of piedforts as they are thicker than others but not double thickness like modern RM piedforts tend to be.

[VickySilver 775]

Those struck in gold were in many cases unique - but often there were many variants on a theme and so each of these variants is unique. I got about three for bullion at the time, or barely above. I too have the catalogue but not a spare.

[Chris Perkins 223]

There's some info in Krause's 'Unusual World Coins'. I've got the 4th edition and the YH 1879 and most of the later monarchs are included, but not all. None of the WmIV and earlier Kings are included. 

I also have some of the Hearn bust Edward VIII fantasy crowns and they vary greatly in style, some appearing much cruder than others. I know that they were designed in the 40s, but to me it seems they were re-struck over many years and I expect the most modern are the crudest. 

[brg5658 111]

I have about 2 dozen different designs/metals of the originals (issued from 1999 - 2001).  The only ones that are really "low" mintage are those struck in Gold.  I only collect those for Great Britain and a couple for Ireland.

Of the two 1879-dated pieces you have posted above:

1)  The "Three Graces" reverse 1879 Crown was struck in Silver, Goldine (bronze), and Copper in quantities of 790 pieces each, in Gold (1 piece coin alignment, 1 piece medal alignment) and in Aluminum (1 piece "trial").

2)  The "Crowned Shield" reverse 1879 Crown was struck in Silver, Goldine (bronze), and Copper in quantities of 800 pieces each, in Gold (1 piece coin alignment, 1 piece medal alignment) and in Aluminum (1 piece "trial").

Note:  The 1879 Crown was also struck with a 3rd reverse -- the William Wyon St. George design.  That piece was struck in Silver, Goldine (bronze), and Copper in quantities of 800 pieces each, in Gold (1 piece coin alignment, 1 piece medal alignment) and in Aluminum (1 piece "trial").

 

The William IV pieces were struck in 2008, the George III were struck in 2007.  The Spink 2001 catalog won't help you with these more recent issues.  But, many are indexed and can be found in the NGC version of the Krause catalog (e.g., this link to the Silver 1835 William IV Crown). You can search by struck date on the fantasy piece, and the denomination.

[brg5658 111]

6 minutes ago, Chris Perkins said:

There's some info in Krause's 'Unusual World Coins'. I've got the 4th edition and the YH 1879 and most of the later monarchs are included, but not all. None of the WmIV and earlier Kings are included. 

I also have some of the Hearn bust Edward VIII fantasy crowns and they vary greatly in style, some appearing much cruder than others. I know that they were designed in the 40s, but to me it seems they were re-struck over many years and I expect the most modern are the crudest. 

The Edward VIII fantasy coins are indexed fully in Giordano's Portraits of a Prince. That is also now the publication that PCGS and NGC use for attribution of these medals/coins/tokens/fantasy pieces.

[brg5658 111]

The 1910 dated Edward VII pieces are among the lowest mintages of the original 1999-2001 designs at 400 pieces.

[Chris Perkins 223]

Thanks brg.

I've also got one or two of the 1879 with St George reverse. And that explains why the 1808 and WmIV are not in my 2005 edition of Unusual World Coins.

It looks like some of the IOM reverse were 360 mintage, but yes, it may as well be 3.6 million as they seem to be cheap and readily available.

I'll do some pictures of the Hearn EdVIII patterns I have and perhaps start a new thread for them. There are notable differences in the quality, but I don't think I have enough of them to warrant a £50 new book purchase.

[brg5658 111]

4 hours ago, Chris Perkins said:

Thanks brg.

I've also got one or two of the 1879 with St George reverse. And that explains why the 1808 and WmIV are not in my 2005 edition of Unusual World Coins.

It looks like some of the IOM reverse were 360 mintage, but yes, it may as well be 3.6 million as they seem to be cheap and readily available.

I'll do some pictures of the Hearn EdVIII patterns I have and perhaps start a new thread for them. There are notable differences in the quality, but I don't think I have enough of them to warrant a £50 new book purchase.

You are completely correct.  The original Hearn issues of 1954/55 were of much higher quality and much higher relief than the later 1980s Lobel issues.  Below is my example of one of the original Hearn issues.  There are also still some of these EdVIII pieces being minted today, I believe somewhere down in Australia.  They are far inferior quality, with very flat relief.  I have seen them in Silver, Nickel, and Brass, and I know there are a few sovereign size strikes floating around in gold.  I don't have a copy of the Giordano book unfortunately.  However, you may find this set of EdVIII issues to be helpful (a member of NGC has put these together over the years).

Edited May 10, 2016 by brg5658

[Gary1000 41]

So where did the fantasy maundy sets come from, where they anything to do with these. at one time ebay was awash with them although I haven't looked recently. I have a set in gold that I've not been able to find out anything about.

[Chris Perkins 223]

2 hours ago, brg5658 said:

You are completely correct.  The original Hearn issues of 1954/55 were of much higher quality and much higher relief than the later 1980s Lobel issues.  Below is my example of one of the original Hearn issues.  There are also still some of these EdVIII pieces being minted today, I believe somewhere down in Australia.  They are far inferior quality, with very flat relief.  I have seen them in Silver, Nickel, and Brass, and I know there are a few sovereign size strikes floating around in gold.  I don't have a copy of the Giordano book unfortunately.  However, you may find this set of EdVIII issues to be helpful (a member of NGC has put these together over the years).

Even my best example is no where near that quality. Completely different dies, but it seems that everyone had a go at making Hearn based EdVIII patterns as mine are quality-wise somewhere between that one and the 80s issues. I also have a couple that are even worse with chucky wire hair. Thanks for that NGC information.

1 hour ago, Gary1000 said:

So where did the fantasy maundy sets come from, where they anything to do with these. at one time ebay was awash with them although I haven't looked recently. I have a set in gold that I've not been able to find out anything about.

According to 'Unusual World Coins' those were NIB Maundy Retro issues.

[Gary1000 41]

16 hours ago, Chris Perkins said:

Even my best example is no where near that quality. Completely different dies, but it seems that everyone had a go at making Hearn based EdVIII patterns as mine are quality-wise somewhere between that one and the 80s issues. I also have a couple that are even worse with chucky wire hair. Thanks for that NGC information.

According to 'Unusual World Coins' those were NIB Maundy Retro issues.

Thanks Chris, NIB not sure who or what that is. A quick google brought up the 'Unusual World Coins' entry for the silver sets but no mention of the gold. An ebay entry also can up for a dealer selling a set for £499, I suspect they have been on their for a while and will stay a long time at that price. One snippet, he quoted 100 sets made of 0.999 gold at 8.71g so they must be worth a couple of hundren quid scrap. Not bad for my £69 outlay.

[Chris Perkins 223]

Here are some other random pics showing the 'Patina Collection' Donald R Golder designed busts of veiled Victoria, Ed VII, Geo V, Ed VIII (2 types) and Geo VI.

The crowned EdVIII looks a bit Micky Mouse but the others are very nicely done imo.... I know they are based strongly on contemporary busts by other artists. They are scans, so a bit blurry due to the high relief.

[brg5658 111]

I have an EdVII example with the same reverse as your Vicky that I recently photographed.

[Chris Perkins 223]

Great photography.

[VickySilver 775]

As a followup - if anybody cares, PCGS will not certify the scarcer gold versions as they are not in Krause's "Unusual Coins" yet??? This despite being published in the Spink Patina Sale of 2001.

[Peckris 579]

I don't know if this was part of the same catalogue? I got it simply because I like the design and it's a good reproduction of a pattern piece.