CGS "membership" Fee

[Chris Perkins 223]

I seem to remember a few years ago when London coins had some kind of Investment Portfolio thing (with a different name) selling slabbed PCGS coins. There was a membership fee which was refunded after a certain sum of coins was purchased. I'd amassed nearly that sum buying things for a client and then they stopped it and started CGS and slabbing them themselves. I asked about the membership fee, if the total credit could be passed on etc. Got a reply weeks later after a further email saying 'No'. Absolutely terrible customer service, always.

And now this happens, which looks very similar to me. Not a good show at all, and all the £99 and £499 subscriptions fees smack of desperation to me.

[Nick 325]

And with the disappearance of CGS, goes with it any notion of any guarantee they offered.

[azda 973]

2 hours ago, Paulus said:

That, I think, is the biggest issue with this change

No, the biggest issue is the charge to view coins you own and were able to view for free 2 months ago. As a secondty thought though you could always charge CGS for using images of your coins, say, £100 a year maybe?

Edited July 29, 2016 by azda

[Nordle11 564]

When I sign in I just get taken to the londoncoins landing page, I can't see any of this? Such a mess, is this, they've really pissed off a few people during this process.

Seems that the pictures can still be viewed the way I mentioned before though, I'll just be doing that for now.

[Guest coin pics]

2 minutes ago, Nordle11 said:

When I sign in I just get taken to the londoncoins landing page, I can't see any of this? Such a mess, is this, they've really pissed off a few people during this process.

Seems that the pictures can still be viewed the way I mentioned before though, I'll just be doing that for now.

If I was you , I would download and save all the pictures of your coins......

[Nordle11 564]

I don't really rate CGS pictures all that much and all of the slabbed coins I've bought I've broken out and taken my own photos, so I'm not too worried about losing their set of pictures. It was more a case of viewing other's coins they have to sell.

[alfnail 756]

1 hour ago, Nordle11 said:

I don't really rate CGS pictures all that much and all of the slabbed coins I've bought I've broken out and taken my own photos, so I'm not too worried about losing their set of pictures. It was more a case of viewing other's coins they have to sell.

Agreed, prefer coins not to be slabbed, but I have kept just a few CGS graded until now as thought would devalue by removing.......they are now coming out.......and definitely not paying £99 out of principle. 

[PWA 1967 1,841]

All good fun 

Either pay or dont , cant see it effecting many people apart from the people who maybe just use the site as a reference.

I suppose its not much different than increasing the slabbing fee ,although that might be next 

As far as buying / selling them can understand that being the main negative 

Pete.

Edited July 29, 2016 by PWA 1967

[PWA 1967 1,841]

Just found out if you pay the subsciption you get a free package posted.

You get a certificate,sticker and a signed photo of semra 

[Nordle11 564]

Lol, does the sticker say "I'm with stupid"?

[azda 973]

1 hour ago, PWA 1967 said:

Just found out if you pay the subsciption you get a free package posted.

You get a certificate,sticker and a signed photo of semra 

I'm definately in, need a new dartboard ?

Edited July 29, 2016 by azda

[supermack 2]

I am livid to be honest. I think it is disgraceful what he has done. Why close down the company?? He is obviously trying to scam people, make as much money as possible.

 

I only have 10 slabbed coins, and I was going to keep them for twenty years to see what happens. But this is a total joke.

Edited July 29, 2016 by supermack

[PWA 1967 1,841]

1 hour ago, supermack said:

I am livid to be honest. I think it is disgraceful what he has done. Why close down the company?? He is obviously trying to scam people, make as much money as possible.

 

I only have 10 slabbed coins, and I was going to keep them for twenty years to see what happens. But this is a total joke.

Cant say i am over the moon and have over two hundred.

They are still the same coin in a piece of plastic and just got to keep smiling.

Pete.

Edited July 29, 2016 by PWA 1967

[bhx7 222]

Have to say I am totally baffled by this. I have sent a reply to the email stating my shock and feelings about what I see as an insane move. The fee seems more like a ransom as without it surely the coin provenance is questionable. Also the whole point is to grow a business and make it something special. Surely London Coins actions here can only be to have shot themselves in the foot. I only have about 8 CGS Slabbed coins, 2 of which I recieved off Pete (PWA 1967) when I first started on the site and were he helped me getting back into the hobby. With over 200 slabbed coins and the overall uncertainty of what this will meen I am sure Pete along with many others from the forum have much more to worry about than the likes of me. I am hoping that something positive will happen soon and am waiting with bated breath to see the outcome. Fingers crossed for you guys.

[Sword 1,330]

10 hours ago, PWA 1967 said:

All good fun 

Either pay or dont , cant see it effecting many people apart from the people who maybe just use the site as a reference.

I suppose its not much different than increasing the slabbing fee ,although that might be next 

As far as buying / selling them can understand that being the main negative 

Pete.

An annual £99 fee would effectively stop those people wishing to slab occasionally. I used to slab on average a couple a year and so can't use them anymore. Having said that, I am not sure I want to anyway even without the fee. At least they used to pretend to be a TPG. Now they have effectively declared themselves a first party slabber. 

(They used to own 51% of CGS. I suspect LC might own the whole thing now and hence the change of name.)

Undoubtedly, more people will think (rightly or wrongly) that they will grade coins being sold by LCA more favourably. E.g. a coin might grade 75 if it belongs to a small time customer, 78 if it is slabbed for an LCA auction and 80 if they are selling it via their website. Self slabbers are just not perceived to be impartial.

1 hour ago, PWA 1967 said:

Cant say i am over the moon and have over two hundred.

They are still the same coin in a piece of plastic and just got to keep smiling.

Pete.

But the grading fee for 200 coins is 2k to 3k and is a substantial investment. I have got less than 20 myself but am still rather annoyed. 

 

[mhcoins 95]

In my opinion, best bet for anyone with a CGS slabbed coin is to get it cross graded asap by NGC / PCGS or crack it out of the slab and burn the CGS ticket

[Rob 3,000]

41 minutes ago, mhcoins said:

In my opinion, best bet for anyone with a CGS slabbed coin is to get it cross graded asap by NGC / PCGS or crack it out of the slab and burn the CGS ticket

Surely getting it cross graded by NGC or PCGS is just throwing good money after bad, or if you are a believer in TPGs, just a waste of money? The grade assigned isn't going to change with a change of ownership. It is at the end of the day, a sunk cost, but the opinion is as valid as the day it was slabbed, whether in plastic or freed.

[supermack 2]

1 hour ago, mhcoins said:

In my opinion, best bet for anyone with a CGS slabbed coin is to get it cross graded asap by NGC / PCGS or crack it out of the slab and burn the CGS ticket

It will cost me a fair bit to do this. Perhaps something to think about later.

[Colin G. 147]

58 minutes ago, Rob said:

Surely getting it cross graded by NGC or PCGS is just throwing good money after bad, or if you are a believer in TPGs, just a waste of money? The grade assigned isn't going to change with a change of ownership. It is at the end of the day, a sunk cost, but the opinion is as valid as the day it was slabbed, whether in plastic or freed.

The difference with the other TPG's is that you would not have to pay to find out whether the coin is registered in their database. The whole reason for the existence of a TPG is to give the consumer comfort relating to authenticity, but not only would someone pay at the point of slabbing, but anyone who looks to buy the coin in the future would also have to pay to get the same verification...therefore the opinion is not as valid...unless someone is willing to pay twice. A fundamental flaw in my opinion 

 

[Paulus 1,942]

11 minutes ago, Colin G. said:

The difference with the other TPG's is that you would not have to pay to find out whether the coin is registered in their database. The whole reason for the existence of a TPG is to give the consumer comfort relating to authenticity, but not only would someone pay at the point of slabbing, but anyone who looks to buy the coin in the future would also have to pay to get the same verification...therefore the opinion is not as valid...unless someone is willing to pay twice. A fundamental flaw in my opinion 

 

Fundamental flaw is exactly what it is in my book! It wouldn't be quite so bad if they kept the verification function free and charge a fee for access beyond that ...

Edited July 29, 2016 by Paulus

[Colin G. 147]

If someone wants to purchase a coin which has a history of being counterfeited, for example the 1934 wreath crown, with the other two TPG's you can input the number on their website and verify that the coin you are looking at is the coin in question, and that the data they hold matches. Do the same with CGS and you would now have to pay for that privilege, and whilst I suppose compared against the value of such a coin it may seem like a minor fee, it is nevertheless a fee that people would have to pay out before a purchase.

It seems they have realised that administering the database is more of a burden than they anticipated, and whilst there may need to be adjustments to the way they operate due to this fact, which would be entirely reasonable, it seems that they have only considered their own perspective and not that of the people who use their services, or the dealers that have actively encouraged their services...it all seems very bizarre.

[Paulus 1,942]

The database pretty much looks after itself. It's the cost of employing people to provide the service when on average they have slabbed 4,000 coins per year at a charge of around £15 per coin (on average) - annual revenue from slabbing therefore around £60k. The fee is a flawed attempt at turning a profit.

[supermack 2]

15 minutes ago, Paulus said:

The database pretty much looks after itself. It's the cost of employing people to provide the service when on average they have slabbed 4,000 coins per year at a charge of around £15 per coin (on average) - annual revenue from slabbing therefore around £60k. The fee is a flawed attempt at turning a profit.

I agree. I think I did this mental calculation when slabbing. I wondered how they stayed in business, concluded that were supported by London coins, but it did make me feel the whole thing was dodgy. But still it was okay back then. Now it is blown out of the water. Totally nuts.

[Rob 3,000]

A large part of the relative success of slabbing in the US vs the UK seems to me to be that more people across the pond seem to be in a state of semi-paranoia regarding whether a coin is genuine or not. A small minority with deep pockets actively pursue the best score accolade, but I see far more concerns posted about authenticity. Clearly the number of iffy items is likely to be the same there as here, so are we not as concerned as our US cousins, as aware of the problem, or just more laid back as a culture?

GeoffT who is a member here, summed up the difference between cultures when he said that Americans have a greater tendency to believe in absolutes, which accounts for the need to have a coin graded and a number assigned in perpetuity. A sporting analogy would be the need in the US for overtime to produce a winner, whereas the 5 days spent arriving at an indecisive result for a game of cricket would be anathema.

4000 coins per year is not a sustainable business. I think their big problem is that culturally we are somewhat easy going and relaxed about our hobby, and probably crucially, are less inclined to treat our coins as an investment. Therefore, it will always be an uphill struggle to raise the workload to a sustainable level. It would be interesting to know the number of people in this country who submit coins to NGC or PCGS on a regular basis, as I suspect there are not too many. That would give a better idea as to the viability of a TPG in this country, irrespective of whether it is CGS or someone else.

[secret santa 2,013]

CGS appear to have (generally) graded consistently and to a well documented standard in the past so I don't see why people should want to spend more money getting their coins regraded. A coin previously graded by CGS has a mark of authenticity that would still stand for me as a collector. The real problem seems to be the inability to verify that grading without charge in future or to view their library of graded coins. I guess the "Hall of Fame" feature will also bite the dust. I'm certainly glad that I never got any coins graded by them in the past but I don't think that anyone who did should feel that they have wasted their money.