Pennies - Edward VII

[VickySilver 775]

PS - Annealing may also raise surface precious metal content if memory serves...

 

I wonder what the control values were for XRF of other Wreath crown dates....

[IanB 175]

The most effective method to check the quality of a precious metal is through the assay process, I believe the Assay Office have been doing this for years

 http://thegoldsmiths.co.uk/about-the-company/the-trial-of-the-pyx/

Annealing sterling silver 92.5% will bring copper to the surface and is called fire stain. Pickling in a 10% solution of sulphuric acid will remove some of this especially if the silver is quenched whilst still warm this will bring the fine silver 99.9% to the surface 

 

Edited April 14, 2016 by IanB

[The Coinery 32]

Thank you for the link IanB - an interesting read. I did not know hardly anything about The Pyx.

However I don't think I will be submitting and of my 34 crowns to this process any time soon :-).

To reply to VickySilver I will test my other wreath crowns and report back to you with photographs of the XRF display.

One small ditty of information is that we have found tiny traces of silver in a few Edward VII sovereigns and half sovereigns.

[The Coinery 32]

20 hours ago, Colin G. said:

Ooh if you have any farthings that need a new home, let me know, I may be able to assist in removing some of the burden..and free up funds to help with your new area of focus. When those slabs surface in the river at sometime in the future, it will seriously confuse and please whoever finds them  - you should set up a new CGS account "Ouse" and move them over into the collection 

Good Morning Colin.

With the exception of my Edward VII Farthings any other Farthings I have are available to help improve your collection. They are listed on CGS as "The Coinery" and TC Coins.

Sixpences are another passion of mine and should you have any 6D you do not want you can cross reference them against "TC - Sixpences".

Pete (PWA1967) berated me for amassing such a hoard of duplicates but unlike Pete I still have to work so I took my eye off the ball and as a consequence I have a redicules quantity of duplicates.

You are a cruel man !!  But I thank you for the soggy CGS pseudonym recommendation but I think I prefer "Lost At Sea" or maybe even "Ship wreck Coins". You will be pleased to know that Numismatic Non Nicety is not restrained to our shores. A fellow collector in Holland and also France have confirmed they have found one of my sovereigns on their beaches but neither has confirmed the UIN (Unique Identification Number) and as such there only reward will be a "Fat Lip" when I next visit them.

I am beginning to see where your pre decimal pseudonym may have "arisen" from.

"Float My Boat" could be another possible collection pseudonym

Enough of these Salty Tales for now as I need to Cast Off and Sail to work . . . . . . 

 

[The Coinery 32]

22 hours ago, Gary D said:

Hi and welcome to the forum. Someone who collects Brass 3d's, I was beginning to think I was the only one with a set. Mods can we have a Brass 3d section.

Hi GaryD

Brass 3D are a greatly overlooked denomination. They are a beautiful little coin with an interesting history.

As far as I know there are 44 different variations of the Brass 3D but after finding out there are 60 variations of the Edward VII Pennie on this site yesterday when I had firmly believed there were on 26 variations. Are there more than 44 variations of the Brass 3D ? ? ?

I would appreciate the opportunity to discuss Brass 3D's with you and I would also like a Brass 3D section if that could be arranged with the site controllers.

Would if be possible to see your Brass 3D collections ? You can see mine on the CGS site under The Coinery and TC Coins.

This is quite exciting as you are he only other Brass 3D collector I know.

I look forward to hearing from you.

[Gary D 76]

4 hours ago, The Coinery said:

4 hours ago, The Coinery said:

Hi GaryD

Brass 3D are a greatly overlooked denomination. They are a beautiful little coin with an interesting history.

As far as I know there are 44 different variations of the Brass 3D but after finding out there are 60 variations of the Edward VII Pennie on this site yesterday when I had firmly believed there were on 26 variations. Are there more than 44 variations of the Brass 3D ? ? ?

I would appreciate the opportunity to discuss Brass 3D's with you and I would also like a Brass 3D section if that could be arranged with the site controllers.

Would if be possible to see your Brass 3D collections ? You can see mine on the CGS site under The Coinery and TC Coins.

This is quite exciting as you are he only other Brass 3D collector I know.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Hi GaryD

Brass 3D are a greatly overlooked denomination. They are a beautiful little coin with an interesting history.

As far as I know there are 44 different variations of the Brass 3D but after finding out there are 60 variations of the Edward VII Pennie on this site yesterday when I had firmly believed there were on 26 variations. Are there more than 44 variations of the Brass 3D ? ? ?

I would appreciate the opportunity to discuss Brass 3D's with you and I would also like a Brass 3D section if that could be arranged with the site controllers.

Would if be possible to see your Brass 3D collections ? You can see mine on the CGS site under The Coinery and TC Coins.

This is quite exciting as you are he only other Brass 3D collector I know.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Hi Guy,

The 3d is only a small part of my collection but I do have an affinity with the often overlooked little sucker. I put a little pamplet together in the stile of Peck 10 years ago for my own interest, was it 10 years ago, doesn't seem possible. I recon the count is nearer 75 if you include the proof.

The_Brass_3d_1936-1967.pdf

[davidrj 194]

1 hour ago, Gary D said:

Hi Guy,

The 3d is only a small part of my collection but I do have an affinity with the often overlooked little sucker. I put a little pamplet together in the stile of Peck 10 years ago for my own interest, was it 10 years ago, doesn't seem possible. I recon the count is nearer 75 if you include the proof.

The_Brass_3d_1936-1967.pdf

Thanks for that Gary, best article on threepences I've seen, may even think about getting some, they seem relatively cheap

[Gary D 76]

Thanks davidrj, reading it through for the first time in many years it could do with a bit of an update. One clarification is that the 1949 is available in both rounded corners and sharp corners. Also the thickness changed changed after 1937 so that needs adding. I also thought about adding a picture of my nickel thin flan Peck 2171 in my avatar which I believe was minted on to an Irish 6d flan.

[mrbadexample 985]

2 hours ago, Gary D said:

The_Brass_3d_1936-1967.pdf

Excellent, thanks for posting that.

 

[Garrett 76]

Yes interesting, thanks ! 

[VickySilver 775]

Out of curiosity, have you ever seen a 1966 or 1967 3d in Record Proof. I always see these listed but have not seen any in 25+ years; I am not certain they exist and Spencer in his 1982/83 articles in the J. of the American Numismatic Assoc. did not list them - these by the way should be standard reading for anybody interested in the VIP Record proof series of 1926-1970.....

[mike 5]

On 15 April 2016 at 8:40 AM, The Coinery said:

Good Morning Colin.

With the exception of my Edward VII Farthings any other Farthings I have are available to help improve your collection. They are listed on CGS as "The Coinery" and TC Coins.

Sixpences are another passion of mine and should you have any 6D you do not want you can cross reference them against "TC - Sixpences".

Pete (PWA1967) berated me for amassing such a hoard of duplicates but unlike Pete I still have to work so I took my eye off the ball and as a consequence I have a redicules quantity of duplicates.

You are a cruel man !!  But I thank you for the soggy CGS pseudonym recommendation but I think I prefer "Lost At Sea" or maybe even "Ship wreck Coins". You will be pleased to know that Numismatic Non Nicety is not restrained to our shores. A fellow collector in Holland and also France have confirmed they have found one of my sovereigns on their beaches but neither has confirmed the UIN (Unique Identification Number) and as such there only reward will be a "Fat Lip" when I next visit them.

I am beginning to see where your pre decimal pseudonym may have "arisen" from.

"Float My Boat" could be another possible collection pseudonym

Enough of these Salty Tales for now as I need to Cast Off and Sail to work . . . . . . 

 

Hello Guy. Are your half crowns listed on CGS website as "The Coinery" and "TC Coins" available as well (obviously with the exception of your E VII ones) ? Thanks, Mike

[secret santa 2,013]

On 4/15/2016 at 2:30 PM, davidrj said:

Thanks for that Gary, best article on threepences I've seen, may even think about getting some, they seem relatively cheap

Quality article - the header implies that there is a bronze penny article ? If so, I'd love to see it.

[Rob 2,996]

On 14/04/2016 at 2:38 PM, VickySilver said:

Quick note, and not to ambush the OP, but XRF can be a bit faulty and only reports composition of the SURFACE layer of metal and presupposes constant alloy content through the whole piece. I don't recall now if the RM utilised this practice but there is a process of "pickling" blanks/planchets by immersing them in acids of varied strength, and this leaches what are termed the "less noble" metals out and thereby increasing the precious metal (ie silver) content of the surfacemost alloy. So, a more destructive test might test the hypothesis of increased silver content of the 1934 crown issue....

To expand on the musings of Vicky regarding XRF, here are two spectra acquired on the same coin (a tin pattern penny) on different instruments on different days. Apologies for the different scaling, but no prizes for guessing which day I was handling thorium oxide. You couldn't see anything, but obviously a minute trace of material found its way onto the surface. If you want accurate numbers it is imperative that you use a standard, but with most standards costing four figures, it isn't cost effective for most people and certainly not for the individual. Standardising operating conditions is not that easy either due to instrument differences.

xrf comparison.docx

Edited April 18, 2016 by Rob

[Gary D 76]

On 16/4/2016 at 5:55 PM, secret santa said:

On 16/4/2016 at 5:55 PM, secret santa said:

Quality article - the header implies that there is a bronze penny article ? If so, I'd love to see it.

Quality article - the header implies that there is a bronze penny article ? If so, I'd love to see it.

Hi SS, Yes there is more. I put this together a couple of months before Michael Freeman re-released his 1985 book, so the rest of the document is a scan of the 1985 Freemans. I spoke to Michael at the time and found out his intension to re-release his book so my offering has collected dust ever since. I did add an additions section which I have sent to Nordle to attach to this post if he wishes.

Additions.pdf

[Nordle11 564]

Attached. A good read too, thanks Gary.

[Gary D 76]

26 minutes ago, Nordle11 said:

Attached. A good read too, thanks Gary.

Hi, you attached the 3d section again.

[Nordle11 564]

Just now, Gary D said:

Hi, you attached the 3d section again.

That I did, it should be the additions file now.

[Nordle11 564]

Talking about the broken 5 in the 1915 penny, you mention that "Only the rounder head obverse appears to exhibit this breakage not the recessed ear observe."

What is meant by rounder head? I was recently talking to Richard about this date because apart from the broken tooth we cannot seem to see any difference in the 2 obverses and it's almost impossible to see the recessed ear. Any new identifier would be excellent.

[davidrj 194]

If you hold the coin to view from the edge, the recessed ear variety shows a distinct concavity rather than the normal convex bust. 

here are my pennies - top 1915 normal and recessed, 1916 below normal and recessed. The "Recess" is best seen in the area behind the ear lobe.

Far easier to spot in photos of worn toned examples

 

 

 

Edited April 18, 2016 by davidrj

[Nordle11 564]

Thanks David, very helpful. The photos are a good comparison too.

Also, nice recessed 1915, can we see a picture of the reverse too?

[PWA 1967 1,840]

Yes a really nice one i cant find one close to that 

Must be spending to much time looking at the teeth ,although easier to see with the comparison.

Edited April 18, 2016 by PWA 1967

[davidrj 194]

3 hours ago, Nordle11 said:

Thanks David, very helpful. The photos are a good comparison too.

Also, nice recessed 1915, can we see a picture of the reverse too?

Thanks, here's both sides

Bought a few years ago, vendor listed it as a 1915 without noting the variety. Sadly scans of shiny coins never come out as they look in hand. the notched tooth is not as pronounced as of the 1916, so possibly die damage that progressed. There are references to recessed ears without the damaged tooth, but can't ever remember seeing a picture of one.

This exercise has reminded me to upgrade my standard 1915 sometime

Edited April 18, 2016 by davidrj

[Nordle11 564]

Lovely coin, better than my normal 1915 which really needs an upgrade too. I did buy a cracking one on eBay about a month a go for around £70 but the seller used the GSP and apparently didn't receive any tracking so we assumed it never arrived to them. Such a pain when coins go missing.