Strategy & etiquette for purchasing coins

[Weaver 41]

15 minutes ago, TomGoodheart said:

Ah, but wouldn't you really rather have something like this?

Still 20 shillings worth.  But miles away from a bit of bullion. 

Yes! I really would Tom!!

And that's where my heart is at y'know?

I really love the really old coins!

How many thousands did that one cost then?

[Rob 2,996]

They are all collectable, just a case of supply and demand. Too many to be absorbed by collectors and they become bullion. Prices vary from £20-30 above bullion to half a million. Horses for courses.

[Rob 2,996]

1 minute ago, Weaver said:

Yes! I really would Tom!!

And that's where my heart is at y'know?

I really love the really old coins!

How many thousands did that one cost then?

Less than you might imagine. There are common ones and rare one, just like everything else. £2-3K usually gets you a nice one, but some need a bit more than that, particularly the later Charles I pieces because very little gold was struck approaching or during the Civil War and after.

 

[Weaver 41]

I would seriously love town one of those Rob!

And gold right?

My biggest fear about purchasing any item of high cost and grade that isn't gold is storage and preservation y'know?

At least with a historically interesting coin made from gold I wouldn't have to worry about things like verdigris developing and things like that y'know?

So what would be the most cost effective way of purchasing an item like that then?

[TomGoodheart 373]

Not mine Weaver.  I only collect shillings!  Still for sale at £3000:  http://www.amrcoins.com/coins-for-sale/HG-1280/

Auctions are probably the way to go for cost effectiveness.  But you'd need a bit of knowledge first to decide how much to bid.  That's why a reputable dealer doing the work for you can be worthwhile.  Of course, some dealers will look out for coins for customers.  Give them an idea of what you want and a budget and let them loose!

[Weaver 41]

Thanks Tom,

For me the whole Civil War era and the socio-political upheaval that went along with that tumultuous time leans me very much towards coins of that period!

Although I must confess that I know hardly anything about the coins from that time.

But! I am willing to learn!

Can you recommend a good book/article/website to get me started for coins of that particular era please?

[Weaver 41]

Elizabeth 1 would be another period of interest as I currently own a shilling from her reign albeit a holed one.

[Weaver 41]

On 22/03/2016 at 2:27 PM, mrbadexample said:

Oh, I could. Just didn't think the time and effort was worth it. I'd rather have the coins than the aggravation. Was fun sorting out the arabic ones though, and I learnt a bit lot.

I've even got a few of those swedes you like.

Hey mrbadexample...(can we get to first name terms yet? I'm Wayne btw)

I have now reached the arabic coins in my collection and boy am I stumped on some!

Can you recommend some resources to help me please?

[Paulus 1,942]

One good reference book on Charles I coins is Sylloge of Coins of the British Isles (SCBI) Vol 33 - The John G. Brooker Collection

My favourite period is pretty much the whole of the 17th century

[TomGoodheart 373]

47 minutes ago, Weaver said:

Thanks Tom,

For me the whole Civil War era and the socio-political upheaval that went along with that tumultuous time leans me very much towards coins of that period!

Although I must confess that I know hardly anything about the coins from that time.

But! I am willing to learn!

Can you recommend a good book/article/website to get me started for coins of that particular era please?

If you just want to see coins of Charles I then, as Paul says, Brooker (Coins of Charles I (1625 - 1649). ) is still a good reference, though black and white illustrations only.  However it doesn't cover the post-Royal period.

Besly's, Coins and Medals of the English Civil War is a smaller volume but gives more history.

Both can be picked up second hand.  The first for as low as £10-£12, the second might be trickier .. £15-£20.

One of the members here (who is also a dealer) has an interest in the period and has written a few articles:  http://www.mhcoins.co.uk/category/articles/

Of course, the British Numismatic Journal has numerous articles which can be viewed online here: http://www.britnumsoc.org/publications/Digital BNJ.shtml   You can link to a pdf of the Index of contents from that page.  Pages 30-31 of the Index list Charles I related articles.

Edited March 23, 2016 by TomGoodheart

[richtips86 24]

Completely off topic, but where abouts in Wimborne / Dorset are you? I've recently moved to manchester but was a 7yr resident of Southbourne! Going home this weekend which I am ecstatic about! Sadly the area is not particularly blessed with coin fairs though

[Weaver 41]

Hi Rich! I live right in the centre of Wimborne and work in Poole actually.

You are right about not many coin fairs in this area.

[Weaver 41]

11 minutes ago, TomGoodheart said:

If you just want to see coins of Charles I then, as Paul says, Brooker (Coins of Charles I (1625 - 1649). ) is still a good reference, though black and white illustrations only.  However it doesn't cover the post-Royal period.

Besly's, Coins and Medals of the English Civil War is a smaller volume but gives more history.

Both can be picked up second hand.  The first for as low as £10-£12, the second might be trickier .. £15-£20.

One of the members here (who is also a dealer) has an interest in the period and has written a few articles:  http://www.mhcoins.co.uk/category/articles/

Of course, the British Numismatic Journal has numerous articles which can be viewed online here: http://www.britnumsoc.org/publications/Digital BNJ.shtml 

Thanks again Tom my man!

I will do my research!

[TomGoodheart 373]

I knew we could sway you from George V to the dark side sooner or later Wayne!

[Weaver 41]

So...how realistic is this scenario...

You make contact with a reputable dealer and is it possible to work with that dealer to help source certain coins to an agreed budget, but then ask the same dealer to help sell them again if another customers wants the coins you have bought.

Does that make sense?

Does that kind of business dealer/customer relationship exist?

The dealer helps the customer source rare coins and then helps sell them again for commission, and the customer makes a small profit as well.

[Weaver 41]

26 minutes ago, Paulus said:

One good reference book on Charles I coins is Sylloge of Coins of the British Isles (SCBI) Vol 33 - The John G. Brooker Collection

My favourite period is pretty much the whole of the 17th century

Thanks Paul.

I love the 17th century as well.

[richtips86 24]

32 minutes ago, Weaver said:

Hi Rich! I live right in the centre of Wimborne and work in Poole actually.

You are right about not many coin fairs in this area.

Know it well, I was based on Nuffield Industrial Estate!

[Weaver 41]

1 minute ago, richtips86 said:

Know it well, I was based on Nuffield Industrial Estate!

Small world my friend...small world...

[TomGoodheart 373]

49 minutes ago, Weaver said:

So...how realistic is this scenario...

You make contact with a reputable dealer and is it possible to work with that dealer to help source certain coins to an agreed budget, but then ask the same dealer to help sell them again if another customers wants the coins you have bought.

Does that make sense?

Does that kind of business dealer/customer relationship exist?

The dealer helps the customer source rare coins and then helps sell them again for commission, and the customer makes a small profit as well.

Mmm ..  not sure if I'm quite getting the turnaround time here. 

For example, Alan Morris collected coins of Charles I for over a decade or more.  A lot of them he bought from the dealer Lloyd Bennett.  He had a good relationship with him so, years later when Alan decided to sell up he asked Lloyd to sell the bulk of his collection, which Lloyd did.

But if you're thinking of a timeframe more like months between purchase and sale, then surely it would be just as easy for the dealer to hold onto the coins themselves and sell for a bit more than the original budget?  Otherwise it sounds like quite a bit of paperwork/admin for the dealer to me. 

Unless he sells to the customer but doesn't actually send him the coins but immediately puts them up for sale on his website?  In which case I guess so (for example the auction house Heritage allow you to buy coins then put them straight up for sale through their "Make Offer to Owner Option")  That way the dealer gets the money, the seller can ask for coins to be returned if they decide not to sell or get a bit of profit.  Win, win.  BUT does require trust, particularly on the part of the customer!

 

Edited March 23, 2016 by TomGoodheart

[Weaver 41]

48 minutes ago, TomGoodheart said:

I knew we could sway you from George V to the dark side sooner or later Wayne!

It didn't take much torture eh?

 

[Weaver 41]

1 minute ago, TomGoodheart said:

Mmm ..  not sure if I'm quite getting the turnaround time here. 

For example, Alan Morris collected coins of Charles I for over a decade or more.  A lot of them he bought from the dealer Lloyd Bennett.  He had a good relationship with him so, years later when Alan decided to sell up he asked Lloyd to sell the bulk of his collection, which Lloyd did.

But if you're thinking of a timeframe more like months between purchase and sale, then surely it would be just as easy for the dealer to hold onto the coins themselves and sell for a bit more than the original budget?  Otherwise it sounds like quite a bit of paperwork/admin for the dealer to me. 

Unless he sells to the customer but doesn't actually send him the coins but immediately puts them up for sale on his website?  In which case I guess so (for example the auction house Heritage allow you to buy coins then put them straight up for sale through their "Make Offer to Owner Option")  That way the dealer gets the money, the seller can ask for coins to be returned if they decide not to sell or get a it of profit.  Win, win.  BUT does require trust, particularly on the part of the customer!

 

Agreed.

I was thinking more of a long term arrangement, but let's say you purchase a rare coin from a dealer and 6 months later another customer contacts said dealer and asks for a similar coin...would the dealer contact me and offer the chance to sell at a profit?

[Rob 2,996]

If you are just starting out, you might have a misconstrued idea of rare coin. Rare coins are exactly that - a handful known and collectively we are mostly aware of their various locations. These coins tend to find the person who wants one and bypass the general market. They are something you are unlikely to encounter in day to day collecting unless dug up and listed on ebay. Without a history of wanting specific rarities, and more crucially putting your money where your mouth is when they become available because they don't usually come cheap, then you won't figure on a dealer's radar.

Most people consider a coin to be rare if not immediately available. In reality, they are simply impatient. Rare might take months or even years for a coin to surface.

[Weaver 41]

Yeah, sorry Rob.

I don't really mean a rare coin. 

Forgive a newbie my man!

As I said right at the beginning of this very interesting thread, I am seeking further knowledge about how the whole dealer business works.

I am learning loads already!

[Peter 615]

Yes Grasshopper you are doing well.

[Rob 2,996]

Yes, but that's the rub. If not rare, then it is unlikely that you will have the only example, nor is it likely to be in the right grade for the prospective purchaser. If mint state, then you are likely to want to hang on to it.