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Weaver

Strategy & etiquette for purchasing coins

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4 minutes ago, Weaver said:

They have silver 0.400 content but quite common so at most we are talking 50p in VF :)

Which is why it's not worth me putting it on ebay. No better than fine, either so must be worth a good 5p. :D

Sweden 10 ore 1929 (2).jpg

Sweden 10 ore 1929.jpg

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Yeah, 10p at most. :lol:

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4 minutes ago, Weaver said:

Yeah, 10p at most. :lol:

Result! :D

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Interesting thread Weaver.  Returning to the original topic, I kinda feel that unless you spend serious money or have a good eye and knowledge it' difficult to actually invest in coins.  A £70 coin that puts on 50% over 10 years still becomes a just-over-£100 coin.  Allowing for inflation that's probably not going to feel like much profit by then.

To make investment type money I think you need to buy cheap and turn around quickly for a profit.  Which is needless to say, not simple or everyone would be a coin dealer!  It's taken me over five years to make money back on some coins and to learn to buy better coins that will hold their value.  Largest loss?  Nearly £180 on a coin bought on impulse and sold too soon.  It would have taken a lot of good 'investment' to make that back had I been collecting for profit...

A fair price for a fair coin is my principle.  But to echo everyone else, a bit of a haggle is very rarely a bad idea.  Just don't expect dealers to do much more than 10% on the majority of coins.  Or that's my experience at least!

An offer can also work elsewhere.  I saw a coin in an auction listing, thought "that doesn't look too awful" then realised the auction had actually been that morning!  Curious to see what it had fetched I checked the prices and there was none.  So I sent an email asking if it had sold and making an offer quite a bit below lower estimate (though for a coin I'd not inspected in person I thought acceptable).  Lo and behold I got quick reply saying the consigner was prepared to accept my offer!  OK, a bit of a risk and I've yet to see what I've actually bought, but here's hoping ...

Edited by TomGoodheart
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Great advice Tom thank you!

And that was quite a risk you took there my man! But it sounds like it's going to pay off handsomely for you!

Oh...and thanks for getting us back on track because I would like to know what other members think...

How about Sovereigns for investment purposes? Do they appreciate over the years?

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Gold coins are obviously linked to the melt price of the metal.  Hence common dates will never fly, but they will always be worth bullion.  Bullion price however goes down as well as up.

Rarer dates/ mints are like any other numismatic item.  Subject to the market (number of collectors, sentiment, and what's in collecting 'fashion' (though gold seems to have remained reasonably popular over the years).  But can be expensive at the offset so again, an area (talking about rarer gold here) that really requires knowledge before you spend any money IMHO.

Oh, here's my "gamble" purchase ... I aim to post photos of the coin in-the-hand to compare with these when it arrives:

 

G1_2.jpg

Edited by TomGoodheart

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From the DNW auction Richard? That's a tactic I haven't tried, nice one ;)

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Lovely coin Tom!

Look forward to the pics when you have it in hand.

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12 minutes ago, Paulus said:

From the DNW auction Richard? That's a tactic I haven't tried, nice one ;)

Ah, no.  Another auction that happened to pop up on a search.  There were a couple of decent coins at DNW, but they went for decent prices!

But yes.  Any unsolds, no harm in asking.  Some consigners will consider selling rather than getting coins back they are then stuck with.

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12 minutes ago, TomGoodheart said:

Ah, no.  Another auction that happened to pop up on a search.  There were a couple of decent coins at DNW, but they went for decent prices!

But yes.  Any unsolds, no harm in asking.  Some consigners will consider selling rather than getting coins back they are then stuck with.

Correct. This coin went for one bid above my maximum in the saleroom, but I received an invoice at my max a couple weeks later. Presumably not made reserve and the seller cut their losses.

http://028-Copy_zps89019167.jpg

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26 minutes ago, Weaver said:

Lovely coin Tom!

Look forward to the pics when you have it in hand.

Thanks.  There's always a slight risk buying from photographs .. the 'worst' was a coin I bought from Stacks in the US which looked very different when it arrived.  Fortunately I still liked it, but it was a bit of a surprise!  Photos can hide a multitude of flaws, even quite unintentionally by being slightly out of focus (softening or blurring surface marks) or give an impression of toning that isn't true in 'normal' conditions.

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As the potential seller here I'll be honest and say that GV (normal dates) aren't really that hot at the moment. That isn't to say they won't be at some point in the future and I'd say that the highest possible grades are not only the best to buy (they won't be making any more) for reasons previously covered, but they are also much easier to sell should you need to. It won't always mean a profit in 10+ years, but they will at least be easy to move on and if bought carefully I think in the event of a loss it will be very minimal. 

Just buy what you like the look of and if you receive something that you are not comfortable with, send it back. Any half decent dealer will take things back without taking offence. 

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Halfpennies are the way to go.. always undervalued.

as for bulk buys on ebay.. they seem to be going for a lot then what i deem the value of the coins, but its always worth having a look through bulks, sometimes the odd bargain is too be had, but that's getting rarer now.

 

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@Weaver, with regard to world coins, do you have a copy of krause?  

If not, private message me, ill sort you out a copy. It covers all world coins, 1600-2011. 

 

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3 hours ago, Chris Perkins said:

As the potential seller here I'll be honest and say that GV (normal dates) aren't really that hot at the moment. That isn't to say they won't be at some point in the future and I'd say that the highest possible grades are not only the best to buy (they won't be making any more) for reasons previously covered, but they are also much easier to sell should you need to. It won't always mean a profit in 10+ years, but they will at least be easy to move on and if bought carefully I think in the event of a loss it will be very minimal. 

Just buy what you like the look of and if you receive something that you are not comfortable with, send it back. Any half decent dealer will take things back without taking offence. 

Thanks Chris.

I will spend the next couple of months sorting out the huge collection of largely fair to fine coins and hopefully sell the majority on Ebay.

With the proceeds I may well ask for your further help in acquiring a few choice coins for me Chris ok?

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2 hours ago, scott said:

Halfpennies are the way to go.. always undervalued.

as for bulk buys on ebay.. they seem to be going for a lot then what i deem the value of the coins, but its always worth having a look through bulks, sometimes the odd bargain is too be had, but that's getting rarer now.

 

Thanks for your input scott.

So do you think selling bulk on Ebay might be a good idea for selling off my huge collection?

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48 minutes ago, Charlie said:

@Weaver, with regard to world coins, do you have a copy of krause?  

If not, private message me, ill sort you out a copy. It covers all world coins, 1600-2011. 

 

Hi Charlie,

Yes, got copy of Krause and all coins I'm sorting at the moment are getting KM numbers for ref.

Thanks for your offer tho my friend!:)

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Hi Weaver

 

I make my living from buying and selling coins, and I'm always happy to enter a dialogue with a potential customer - and I see the haggle as the opening of that dialogue.  My business is built on my repeat customers, some of whom have been with me for many years - they kind of came with me as I advanced, which is rather nice.  I consider many of my regulars to be friends.   

People do ask me from time to time whether the coins they have just bought will appreciate over time or not - I usually tell them that they will probably retain their value, rather than gain in value - and that coins are a store of wealth at best.  My experience is that it is really difficult to make money on coins by sitting on them.  TomGoodheart is right, you have to flip them fairly quickly to make any money.  I like to think in terms of "velocity of money".  It's not my term, but I like it - the more times the same money goes around in a year, say, the healthier your business.  If I spend £100 on a coin, the release of that £100 to make it accessible again for reinvestment is more important to me than pure margins, and the more times I spend that £100, the more stock I am generating, the more customers I am attracting, and the more knowledge I gain by having more coins pass through my hands.  So very often, and don't tell anyone :rolleyes:, I'll surprise a customer by accepting an offer they never thought I would accept - because I want that money back so that I can buy more coins.

 

 

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Awesome insight Declan! Thank you for sharing! 

I have always wondered how dealers actually make a profit, and now I get the idea.

I think having loyal customers is an essential pre-requisite for a successful business model and therefore being fair on price must surely be essential.

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As a collector, the profit I've made is generally from spotting something rarer or in better condition than usual at a reasonable price.  And then knowing another collector who might be interested helps!  Although I also favour part exchange.  If I want a coin from a dealer then sometimes they will be willing to offset some of the price in exchange for a coin I no longer want.  Though of course, that doesn't always work!  Generally coins I've tired of are lacking something so there's a risk they won't appeal to others either. 

Thing is, with the sort of coins I collect, coins in 'better than usual condition' don't turn up so often.  And if they do it's worth paying a premium.

But with more modern coins like GV onwards, I think it was Declan himself that reminded me, they were minted by the thousands, if not millions.  Consequently there will be far more examples in better condition.  This not only means that you ideally want a really nice example to ensure it keeps its value, but also that it's worth taking time and waiting until that nicer example turns up!

In both cases it's key to have a good idea of what an 'average' example looks like, in order to spot the better than coins.  Maybe that's the attraction of proof sets, in that they contain presentation grade coins that show all the artistry of the designer.  Although personally, I like a coin to have some evidence that it's circulated or passed through people's hands.  The history is part of the appeal and a 350 year old coin should look different from one struck today IMHO.

.

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Buying a coin for investment is a risky business.I have both failed and succeeded ,luckily more the latter.I have done well with favorable exchange rates and in depth knowledge of a series.Eye appeal is a big factor,if you like it the chances are others will.

Colin of Aboutfarthings will be publishing a book on farthings soon (won't you Colin ? :rolleyes:) This will ignite the 1/4d market and make me a copper/bronze multi millionaire.;)

I only have 1 sovereign at present because I flogged the lot when gold peaked,I could not ignore nearly 400%.I've still got pre sovereign gold (not much) but the coins are not so tied to bullion I also prefer them.Flipping coins is a skill which Declan has mastered.At one time in the Thatcher period I joined a syndicate of fellow Q.S's who gambled their VAT £ or surplus funds on the stockmarket.It became common place to take a 15% profit....lets not talk about losses. I also follow my unit linked pension funds and have gambled with these. Investing for profit in any field IS a gamble.With your own knowledge gathered from various sources you can increase your chances of getting it right. Before Coin news there was a publication called Coin Monthly and I remember they did a Top 10 of coins to invest in...Boy did they get it wrong.

Coins I can honestly say I collect for pleasure and financial benefit is a bonus.

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Thanks Peter & Tom for your great insight!

Back after a long tiring day job:mellow:

Hmmm...I was seriously thinking about investing £10K into Gold sovereigns, but now I'm not so sure? The price of gold has come down from when it peaked, but it's still not at bargain purchase level...Also, most sovereigns I see advertised by dealers seem to be well over the 'book' price! I can't see how anyone can make any profit this way if 1. You're buying over the odds and 2. You only get offered 60% when you sell??

I'm confused...:P

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You'll get a lot better than 60% on sovereigns. Most are bought a fraction under bullion and sold for a tenner or a bit more. The money is made on quick turnaround, not a large capital gain. Obviously doesn't apply to all sovereigns, but certainly does to many 20th century pieces.

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1 hour ago, Weaver said:

 

Hmmm...I was seriously thinking about investing £10K into Gold sovereigns, but now I'm not so sure? The price of gold has come down from when it peaked, but it's still not at bargain purchase level...

Ah, but wouldn't you really rather have something like this?

4093_640x640.jpg4094_640x640.jpg

Still 20 shillings worth.  But miles away from a bit of bullion.  :D

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1 hour ago, Rob said:

You'll get a lot better than 60% on sovereigns. Most are bought a fraction under bullion and sold for a tenner or a bit more. The money is made on quick turnaround, not a large capital gain. Obviously doesn't apply to all sovereigns, but certainly does to many 20th century pieces.

Thanks Rob.

What about older more collectable Sovereigns and not just gold bullion? Is that a different story?

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