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Pre '47 George VI Silver Coinage - Opinions?

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Idly rummaging thru ebay this morning & stumbled across a small set of G VI silvers (half crown, florin, shillings (English / Scottish) & sixpence) in nice condition - curiosity & my 'itchy finger' got the better of me, so threw in a bid of a tenner & won.

Now, newbie or not, if they look remotely like the listing pics, I reckon this is something of a bargain, but it also set me thinking. Generally, George VI coinage, particularly the pre '47 silver, seems to be 'on the floor' pricewise & I can't help but wonder why. Were they minted in particularly large numbers, or has the hobby been too preoccupied with earlier stuff thus far?

It seems to me that they could be decent mid - term sleepers, although perhaps I'm missing something?

What do you think?

Frank

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Hi Frank can you put a link to the coins please so we can have a look.

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Thanks Frank they look nice. Sorry cannot comment on their value or your other questions. Like your self I am new to collecting but there are lots of helpful people on here who will be able to give you the answer.

Again like yourself I have been buying off eBay but have made a promise to myself to start buying from reputable dealers and fairs. 

If you follow the messages you soon start to see dealers names popping up frequently and its good to view their sites and compare the quality against some of the stuff on eBay. Having said that it's still worth checking eBay for the occasional gem.

good hunting.

 

Ian

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Cheers, Ian.

I'm currently plotting my first dealer purchases in a (probably vain) attempt to keep myself outta the pub for a month by blowing the 'fun money' on coins. Ebay represents the chance for a 'play around' with little risk on the low - end stuff whilst getting a feel for 'market movements' in general, I suppose.

The value of anything is, of course, what the market will bear - and as much as my little score might be pretty good, it's obvious that George VI coinage is, by and large, proportionately lagging behind the earlier stuff. So really, the question isn't 'what are they worth?' so much as 'why are they worth so little?'

Frank

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I am going to take a guess and say they were probably minted by the millions and there are still a lot of them around.

 

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Hi Frank

 

Some info and observations:

 

The key to whether you bought cheaply, about right, or a little over the odds will be the grades of these coins. The seller’s pics, taken through the plastic wallets, are not good enough to determine whether they are around EF (probably) or (significantly) GEF or better.

The ‘floor’ value for these pre 1947 silver coins (in any condition) is their bullion value (BV). This is based on the silver content of the coins (they are 50% silver). The spot price of silver is very low at the moment (compared to say 5 years ago), and at today’s prices the total silver value of your batch of coins is about £6.

Here’s a ‘ready-reckoner’ (at today’s silver price):

 Denomination

 

Weight (g)

 

Weight (Toz)

 

Bullion Value (<1920)

 

Bullion Value (1920-1946)

 

         

Sixpence

 

2.8

 

0.090

 

£0.78

 

£0.42

 

Shilling

 

5.7

 

0.183

 

£1.59

 

£0.86

 

Florin

 

11.3

 

0.363

 

£3.16

 

£1.71

 

Half Crown

 

14.1

 

0.453

 

£3.94

 

£2.13

 

Crown

 

28.3

 

0.910

 

£7.90

 

£4.27

 

You have paid £12 delivered (always factor in the postage). I notice that you were the only bidder, and increased your maximum bid 3 times – may I ask what your maximum bid was?

These coins were minted in their millions (literally), and when news came that in 1947 they would no longer contain any silver at all, people started squirrelling them away, so they are very easy to find in high grades. In 1946 alone there were over 43 million sixpences minted, the other denominations were 1946E > 18m, 1946S > 16m, florin  and half-crown both > 22m.

This might be an opportunity to try grading these coins yourself when you have them in hand. Did you say you had ordered the grading book I mentioned in an earlier post?

 

Edited by Paulus
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Hi Paul,

Yes - one of the reasons for my ebay activities is to get a handle on grading - even at this stage, it's apparent there's quite a lot of, erm, 'bulldust' when it comes to ebay dealer grades. More surprising, to me at least, is that even when there are apparent (even to me!) 'howlers' in a coins grade or description, most times, the dealer seems to get away with it, judging by feedback records etc. There must be many 'casual' buyers out there - guess you're happy with what ya got until you know better, huh?

I always bid multiple times (to a ceiling, obvs) on any item that's bid - free when I join the fray (max was £13, btw) - you'd be surprised (or not) at how effective this can be at putting others off bidding. (I have much more ebay history than my current 'buying' account would suggest). In turn, my bid maxima was based upon what I assume to be able to re - sell for, with some degree of surety, should the need arise. Yes, silver isn't where it was in the heady days of 2011, but I'm a bit of a 'stacker' (ingots, mainly) & always have a keen eye on 'live' spot ;) Arguably, the floor for any coin with a bullion content will always be what it scraps at - but was the George VI stuff really minted in such huge quantities? How do these figures stack up against George V / Edward VII figures - are they that different? What about the late '30s coins? They seem just as depressed, pricewise, as the mid forties issues?

Oh, and yes - book ordered - just waitin' on delivery.

Frank

 

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Its a good move Frank, I do the same on listings without bids - increase the bid by 30p 3 or 4 times and let it run, some people see it's got a few bids and might just leave it alone. When looking through hundreds of listings a day sometimes you just can't be bothered to check if it's the same bidder or not, and hey, if it deters just one person then that's one less bidder :P

 

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IMO, there are a lot more George VI coins around because it was possible to find them in change in the 1970s, but most of the "high grade" ones that come onto the market are cleaned EF (they look more presentable cleaned to the untrained eye than George V). I am quite keen on CGS graded coins and I would say that the scarcity of truly Unc or choice examples is now slowly emerging over time on the population report. We shall see, my own prediction is that anything from 1938 - 1944 will prove scarce in truly choice UNC grade (CGS grade 82 or better) and well may prove to be a good ivestment – in the long term, I mean.

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Hello, MIke

Yes, I'm inclined to agree from what little I've already seen and based on a (not comprehensive - & certainly not for coins!) certain degree of understanding vis a vis market dynamics.

Obviously, everyone here is FAR more knowledgeable than I regarding the coins themselves, but I suspect that: 1/. G VI mintage figures won't, broadly, be that dissimilar to earlier C. 20 Monarchs & 2/. 'Squirreling' would equally apply to all silver coinage pre '47 - particularly immediately prior to 1920, too - for the same reason. It may well be that they prove to be the 'low hanging fruit' for newer (also prolly younger than me!) collectors who can sit on 'em for twenty or so years.

I too, in principle at least, am attracted to the idea of formal grading ( I have a few PCGS graded Britannia silver proofs) but how, or indeed if, I choose to make use of that in a pre - decimal context, has yet to be resolved!

Frank

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53 minutes ago, Nordle11 said:

Its a good move Frank, I do the same on listings without bids - increase the bid by 30p 3 or 4 times and let it run, some people see it's got a few bids and might just leave it alone. When looking through hundreds of listings a day sometimes you just can't be bothered to check if it's the same bidder or not, and hey, if it deters just one person then that's one less bidder :P

 

I agree with this too Matt and Frank. It may be off-putting for bargain hunters to see several bids on their hoped-for steal, or to find that their incremental bid is not enough to take the lead.

One word of warning though, sellers that engage in 'shilling' may notice that you have left extra maximum bids above the current price and get their mates (or use another account) to bid you up!

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Yes be weary of that, I stick to only a pound or so over my initial bid because of that very reason. Normally I low ball a few bids on something I'm interested in to show that it's already got interest then watch it end to put in my actual maximum bid just before it finishes, as many love to do. It's one of those things that you'll never know if it actually worked but is always worth a try in case it does :) 

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Ha! Shill bidders?

Try bidding for a vintage MIJ Les Paul on Yahoo Japan via a proxy service like Rinkya or Jauce, THEN you'll know about shill bidders. :)

Frank

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Those coins look perfectly nice to me, Frank, with plenty of eye appeal - and they haven't broken the bank.  I'd be happy with them for the price you paid...

If/when you get the Collectors Coins GB book, this contains mintage figures for each coin and each year, where figures were published.  This will help give an idea of the coin's relative scarcity but doesn't necessarily correlate with how hard may be to find one in really top condition (older coins might have been melted down, or not kept as often, etc).

 

 

 

Edited by Stuntman
typo...
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Indeed, Stuntman - in fact, I'd be VERY surprised if an awful lot of perfectly nice coins with a perceived low value haven't been scrapped when silver has spiked - particularly in 2011!

Re: Cleaned coins. Yes, there seem to be an awful lot out there, particularly G VI. In fact, I've deliberately ordered one (which is otherwise aUNC to my eyes) to get it under a loupe to see the effects of 'the dip'. I also plan on leaving this one outside to see how it re - tones, naturally but at an accelerated rate.

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