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TomGoodheart

Auction Catalogues

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Just thought I'd bump this list of literature wants:



Sotheby & Co 20 - 24 November, 1933 Catalogue of the Valuable Collection of Coins Formed by the Late Colonel H. W. Morrieson and;

Sotheby 17 June 1935 Catalogue of the Choice Collection of English Coins Formed by the Late Sir Kenyon Vaughan-Morgan.


I am also looking for a copy of Mark Rasmussen (Numismatist) List #1 (Summer 2001).

Thanks!

.

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I would dearly love to have some old coin auction catalogues, such as mentioned by Tom above, even if only as an e copy on screen. Such literature absolutely fascinates me.

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I've got a nice tidy bound copy of Cuff (Sotheby 8/6/1854) with prices and names if anyone is interested. This was one of the major collections of the 19th century and the most important offering following the Thomas Thomas sale a decade earlier.

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I've got a nice tidy bound copy of Cuff (Sotheby 8/6/1854) with prices and names if anyone is interested. This was one of the major collections of the 19th century and the most important offering following the Thomas Thomas sale a decade earlier.

I'm interested - how much do you want for it, Rob?

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Sold. Thanks Michael.

Thanks Rob

Edited by 1949threepence

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Sold. Thanks Michael.

Received about 30 minutes ago. Amazing, now unique work. Incredible that one individual could have accumulated that volume of coins in one lifetime. I wonder what some of them would fetch today?

Thanks again, Rob.

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I bought a batch of Spink sales lists from the early 60's annotated by the original owner.

There are loads of quality items listed it made my eyes pop.

Seems the original owner of the lists bought some beauties.

Even when Coin Monthly was going I bought from adverts therein with a good degree of success.

Different playing field now.

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Sold. Thanks Michael.

Received about 30 minutes ago. Amazing, now unique work. Incredible that one individual could have accumulated that volume of coins in one lifetime. I wonder what some of them would fetch today?

Thanks again, Rob.

Some fairly eye watering increases probably to many people. I paid £2850 for something that sold for £6 in 1854.

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Sold. Thanks Michael.

Received about 30 minutes ago. Amazing, now unique work. Incredible that one individual could have accumulated that volume of coins in one lifetime. I wonder what some of them would fetch today?

Thanks again, Rob.

Some fairly eye watering increases probably to many people. I paid £2850 for something that sold for £6 in 1854.

A 47,500% increase :ph34r:

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Sold. Thanks Michael.

Received about 30 minutes ago. Amazing, now unique work. Incredible that one individual could have accumulated that volume of coins in one lifetime. I wonder what some of them would fetch today?

Thanks again, Rob.

Some fairly eye watering increases probably to many people. I paid £2850 for something that sold for £6 in 1854.

A 47,500% increase :ph34r:

Probably not as bad as the Carlisle siege pieces that sold for just over £6 and now go for £15K. There were a few spare Carlisles in his duplicates sold in 1857. They went for 1 or 2 pounds, but would still cost you £12-15K today.

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Sold. Thanks Michael.

Received about 30 minutes ago. Amazing, now unique work. Incredible that one individual could have accumulated that volume of coins in one lifetime. I wonder what some of them would fetch today?

Thanks again, Rob.

Some fairly eye watering increases probably to many people. I paid £2850 for something that sold for £6 in 1854.

A 47,500% increase :ph34r:

Probably not as bad as the Carlisle siege pieces that sold for just over £6 and now go for £15K. There were a few spare Carlisles in his duplicates sold in 1857. They went for 1 or 2 pounds, but would still cost you £12-15K today.

You can see that with inflation only, something that cost, for example, £6.00 in 1854, would today (well 2014, but close enough considering inflation is currently zero or negative), cost £594.11. So many coins have massively outstripped inflation. I suppose partly due to increasing scarcity with the passage of time, as well as increased demand and a global market.

inflation calculator

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The bulk of that excess over inflation has been in the last 50 or 60 years, as one might expect. Ten years or so ago I was using 50x Lockett sale prices as a rule of thumb to arrive at a ballpark figure for the same coin. Within 5 years that number was closer to 100x the price in the mid-50s. Lockett was able to accumulate in the quantities he did simply because prices were depressed in the late 20s and 30s. Lockett's example of the same coin which was in roughly the same condition sold for £24 in 1956, so that ties in with our two multipliers. 4 or 5 times increase in the first 100 years, then another 100x in the past 60.

Leaving aside coins, the 100-fold increase over the past 160 years should give some of us food for thought.

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As you know the prices of coins are determined by the equilibrium of supply and demand ... The supply is more or less the same in the years while the demand , especially with the invention of internet, is increased a lot . So I think in addition to inflation what has determined the increase of prices is that in the past only few people could have the possibility to have a coin collection.

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Demand has certainly increased dramatically. The choice pieces have always been few in number - a fraction of a percent, and they have always been able to find a home. Over the years a good number of these have found their way into museum collections, either as bequests or as direct purchases. Museums were particularly active in the second half of the last century, though funds are somewhat restricted today. Bequests such as those of Weightman and Clarke-Thornhill ensured that the BM had a significant increase in the collection, with the latter allowing them to take any coin for which they previously did not have an example of the die. Thousands went to them as a result. Similarly the Fitzwilliam benefited from the Henderson bequest (1933) - an act which eliminated a LOT of high grade material from the collector scene as he only collected choice pieces. Blackburn Museum's collection was essentially donated by Hart in 1945. Again, a significant number of rarities were removed from circulation.

In the past, dealers such as Baldwins would have bought the book, i.e. any unsolds would have been acquired by them at reserve (if any) or at bargain prices. This was ok as it meant that they could build up stocks and keep a glut from saturating the market. The extent to which this happened was clear when Baldwins were taken over and the basement cleared. Many rarities which had been off the market for maybe 70 or 80 years suddenly became available again. However, since WW2, this cushion has fallen by the wayside as more people had disposable income and populations increased, providing a broader collector base meaning that demand for lesser pieces increased.

Today the collector base is much broader and those with deep pockets far more numerous than in the past. All of this creates a perfect storm leading to rocketing prices.

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The choice pieces have always been few in number - a fraction of a percent, and they have always been able to find a home. Over the years a good number of these have found their way into museum collections, either as bequests or as direct purchases. Museums were particularly active in the second half of the last century, though funds are somewhat restricted today. ...

I think if it were only this then catalogues would make most depressing reading! All those prime examples, now unobtainable and often buried, unseen in a basement somewhere!

But of course, metal detecting has brought new material to light, both new hoards and individual coins. In particular smaller coins people have lost such as silver halfpennies and farthings which might have been overlooked in the past. And there are, I am sure, still unrecognised gems in small collections here and there.

So for me catalogues, particularly of better collections, still provide a benchmark to aspire to. And while they may be what were then considered lesser pieces, it's always a joy to discover one of your coins has some provenance to an older collection.

And of course, collecting isn't just about the premier pieces, although in some areas the trend is very strongly towards just quality. Older collections (I'm thinking of John Brooker's collection of Charles I, but the same could to an extent be said about the recent Lyall sale) quite often contain lesser coins as examples of differences in design or legend reading etc.

While there doesn't seem to be much taste for the 'rare but poorer' coins at present, as the prices of the top coins soar then maybe more people will see the merit in these variants again. At which point catalogues, particularly the more recent ones that illustrate the majority of the coins, will no doubt prove useful.

.

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There are still plenty of choice coins available, just too many collectors to spread them around. They do however represent a very small percentage of the total available. It would be good for the hobby to see an increase in the number of people doing genuine research in any area as this would increase the demand for lesser pieces. It has to be born in mind that many varieties are only available in low grade.

Museums have acquired a considerable number of rare/choice coins in the past half century. NMW, BM, Exeter, Taunton etc, the list is endless. Additionally there is a small but not insignificant list of coins that are unobtainable elsewhere, unless someone digs up another example.

Recently rendered unobtainable is a Petherton coin, discussed a couple weeks ago, where the ex-Lockett coin was the last one available. It is no longer possible to acquire a complete run of PAXS penny mints as the last one in circulation went to Guildford Museum. I spent a couple years looking for an Exeter crown until I found it was bought by the museum in the Willis sale in 1992. Edward Besly has procured a good number of Civil War pieces for the NMW too. All the Horndons are in museums AFAIK and then there are the unique pennies of Hywel Dda and Pershore in the BM.

The insistence on keeping hoards intact is also not very helpful to collectors. Once they enter a musem then they frequently become available to the public in theory only as many museums don't have a curator - so they languish. This is a double edged sword though as the Frome hoard of 52000 Roman coins would undoubtably have flooded the market for example.

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There are still plenty of choice coins available, just too many collectors to spread them around. They do however represent a very small percentage of the total available. It would be good for the hobby to see an increase in the number of people doing genuine research in any area as this would increase the demand for lesser pieces. It has to be born in mind that many varieties are only available in low grade.

Museums have acquired a considerable number of rare/choice coins in the past half century. NMW, BM, Exeter, Taunton etc, the list is endless. Additionally there is a small but not insignificant list of coins that are unobtainable elsewhere, unless someone digs up another example.

Recently rendered unobtainable is a Petherton coin, discussed a couple weeks ago, where the ex-Lockett coin was the last one available. It is no longer possible to acquire a complete run of PAXS penny mints as the last one in circulation went to Guildford Museum. I spent a couple years looking for an Exeter crown until I found it was bought by the museum in the Willis sale in 1992. Edward Besly has procured a good number of Civil War pieces for the NMW too. All the Horndons are in museums AFAIK and then there are the unique pennies of Hywel Dda and Pershore in the BM.

The insistence on keeping hoards intact is also not very helpful to collectors. Once they enter a musem then they frequently become available to the public in theory only as many museums don't have a curator - so they languish. This is a double edged sword though as the Frome hoard of 52000 Roman coins would undoubtably have flooded the market for example.

Just looked up the Edward Besley you mentioned and I find he is the same Edward Besley who was at college with me for a while in the early 1970s. We both studied chemistry, but he was in the year below me, except that I took a gap year and so ended up in the same year as him just before finals.

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I just thought I'd bump that I'm still looking for a copy of Mark Rasmussen's (Numismatist) List #1 (Summer 2001).  Yes, I know it's not an auction catalogue, but ..

Just in case anyone trips over a copy while tidying their library or something.   :P  

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I tripped over it the other day when I stood up after trying to reference a provenance - not that it helps you.

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LOL  Sounds like you need more bookcases Rob!

 

Edited by TomGoodheart

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I don't suppose anyone has a spare copy of St James Auction 9 (Rowley Butters collection) , or can point me in the direction of one?  (I'm interested in the Charles I Pattern 'crown' - this seems to be the only auction sale of one this century).

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Sorry, no spare, nor Spink 62 or the other sales listed

 

Edited by Rob

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Anyone heard from Tomgoodheart (Richard) hope he is OK. I do appreciate everyone needs a break now and again. I miss his Ch1 shilling posts.

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2 hours ago, Peter said:

Anyone heard from Tomgoodheart (Richard) hope he is OK. I do appreciate everyone needs a break now and again. I miss his Ch1 shilling posts.

He's not been gone that long - last visited Thursday at 4.33pm.  

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