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bhx7

clogs, die faults, et al.

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A couple of better close up pictures of my 2 x 1858 with 8 over 6 and 8 over what we think could be another 8.

Playing with my new toy USB Microscope :D

Unfortunately the drivers dont work properly on my 64 bit PC so am having to do Screen Shots!

post-8845-0-27866100-1450389345_thumb.jp

post-8845-0-50536700-1450389360_thumb.jp

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This is a 1673 V.QVINTO Charles II halfcrown, FR over M. Note that most of the back of Charles' head has not been struck up.

post-712-0-71963800-1450544561_thumb.jpg

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This is a 1673 V.QVINTO Charles II halfcrown, FR over M. Note that most of the back of Charles' head has not been struck up.

attachicon.gif1673FRoverM.jpg

Has the reverse die initially been inserted into the press 90 degrees out and then repositioned? i.e. is there any other legend that is displaced by the same angle or is it just this letter and therefore likely to be an engraving error?

Edited by Rob

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An error I picked up the other day, but not a run of mill error. This one I don't know what happened, it looks like regular damage but there's a serif on the bottom of the N still, even though it's higher up. I think the metal has just been pushed up which has caused it, but it's different from the normal lamination flaw or clip I pick up.

1.jpg

2.jpg

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22 minutes ago, Bronze & Copper Collector said:

IMHO, PMD

the I is equally damaged to the same level.....

Thanks for the reply BCC, what say you about the 'serif' on the bottom of the N? I can't see how it could have been done post strike, I'd understand if the bottom part of both was completely missing but there is metal where the shouldn't be?

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1 hour ago, Nordle11 said:

Thanks for the reply BCC, what say you about the 'serif' on the bottom of the N? I can't see how it could have been done post strike, I'd understand if the bottom part of both was completely missing but there is metal where the shouldn't be?

IMHO, Not a mint produced serif...

Just metal pushed upward thar happens to resemble a serif, albeit not resembling the other serifs...

 

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7 hours ago, Bronze & Copper Collector said:

IMHO, Not a mint produced serif...

Just metal pushed upward thar happens to resemble a serif, albeit not resembling the other serifs...

I'm confusing things here by calling it a serif, I'm just saying that so you know which part I'm on about but I don't think it's a standard mint produced one, I just can't see how that extra bit (that resembles a serif) has come about from PMD. I have another coin with damage in the date, it's got a similar problem where the metal has been jumbled up during the strike although I don't know how these things happen.

Damage.jpg

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4 hours ago, Nordle11 said:

I'm confusing things here by calling it a serif, I'm just saying that so you know which part I'm on about but I don't think it's a standard mint produced one, I just can't see how that extra bit (that resembles a serif) has come about from PMD. I have another coin with damage in the date, it's got a similar problem where the metal has been jumbled up during the strike although I don't know how these things happen.

Damage.jpg

Just think of bronze as being a very hard plastic, it will move if pushed. That's how the coin if formed in the first place. Plastic flow into the mould/die.

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I understand that the alloy is malleable but with quite a large amount of force though right? If you were to do something like the last 2 errors I posted it wouldn't be possible after it's been struck, unless you had something to keep it still without affecting the coin itself. For instance, on the damaged numerals, could you whack it with, say, a chisel and move the number around on the face of the coin?

What I'm getting at is that I think they are both mint errors, but I'm not sure how they ended up how they did because the metal has moved around into different places. If the die was damaged and the metal was flowing into the broken parts, that makes sense to me.

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On 14/01/2016 at 0:16 PM, Nordle11 said:

I understand that the alloy is malleable but with quite a large amount of force though right? If you were to do something like the last 2 errors I posted it wouldn't be possible after it's been struck, unless you had something to keep it still without affecting the coin itself. For instance, on the damaged numerals, could you whack it with, say, a chisel and move the number around on the face of the coin?

What I'm getting at is that I think they are both mint errors, but I'm not sure how they ended up how they did because the metal has moved around into different places. If the die was damaged and the metal was flowing into the broken parts, that makes sense to me.

Its been hit with a sharp edge, you can see the straight line where the edge stopped.

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Some more errors from me.

 

clip.jpg

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18 hours ago, Nordle11 said:

Crack.jpg

The 1921 is more interesting because the flaws go under the lettering.

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On 21/1/2016 at 3:19 PM, Gary1000 said:

The 1921 is more interesting because the flaws go under the lettering.

It also shows up through the E and N quite a bit as well. Here's some closer shots..

1.jpg

2.jpg

3.jpg

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So nothing abnormal. The flaw just tracks across the surface, just that in this instance it crosses a feature.

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Nope nothing out of the ordinary. It's nice to have a big die crack on one side and a lamination error on the other, both quite substantial too. 

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An 'upgrade', if you can call it that, of something that I find quite interesting, I like the theory behind expending the brass shells into the alloy mix after the war. One of the most affected ones I've seen.

 

1.jpg.c0a429e495a8b57e68666bb0e65c16a3.j

 

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Never heard of that Matt , looks weird.

If its part of the mix why has it not affected the obverse ?.

Might be a daft question but never seen one before.

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Not sure, it's quite a common problem on the coins around these years, when they still have lustre they tend to be a little 'streaky' (the affected ones) but once it's dulled and has a bit of wear, some of them come out like this. The one I've had for a while is the same, but only on the obverse! 

I think that's what interests me more, is that one can only guess as to what happened, there's no definitive answer AFAIK.

 

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Well I also have a 1920 like Matts, not quite as well defined, but also on the reverse. I also have this 1921 with it on the Obverse only. Every time I have seen it It only seems to affect one side. maybe different weights of metal sinking to the bottom of the mix!!! Anyway here is mine. Just took it very quickly in a dull room and camera phone so sorry for quality!

The effect always reminds me of Tortoise Shell.

1921 tortoise shell Obverse.jpg

Edited by bhx7
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That's also an interesting theory, perhaps when the sheets are rolled out the copper/tin is being pushed down more so than the zinc? Still quite a bit of detail on that reverse too :) 

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Here are a few more examples from 1919 and 1921. One of the 1919 seem to have some of both sides.

I originally thought someone had tried to colour these but sure they are part of the same defect. Not quite as bitty more streaking!

Tortoise Shell pennies.jpg

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Looks uni-directional which to me would suggest it is part of the rolling process of the blanks or possibly some post strike treatment, but strange that it appears to be predominantly on one face only.

Ian..

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