1841 half crown help please

[AdamCurtis 0]

Hi I'm an amateur collector and was hoping somebody could give me a definitive way if finding out of this coin is authentic or not. It's an 1841 half crown (maybe)

All help appreciated

Adam Curtis

[Paulus 1,942]

Hi Adam, a warm welcome to the forum

As you may be aware, 1841 is a scarce data and IF this coin is authentic the Spink guide price is £1000 in Fine and £2250 in VF.

What is the weight of it?

[Rob 2,998]

The pictures could be better.

Let's start with where did you get it? Weight? Does it ring correctly for silver? What is the edge? The thickness at the rim?

[VickySilver 775]

Agreed, some of the obverse beading looks a bit dodgy though the central Vicky device not too bad and fairly crisp. The reverse, though blurry just does not look quite right. Not prepared to condemn though.

As I posted with the 3d post [that nobody seems to care about], I believe a coin like this has to be confirmed as the real thing as opposed to assuming good and then finding problems with it. I know that is a bit pessimistic, but hopefully safe in this day of increasingly improved counterfeiting.

[AdamCurtis 0]

Thanks for the quick replies I'm afraid I don't currently have access to accurate weighing/measuring equipment but I can tell you the coin is non magnetic and has been in the family for 50+ years. The Queens head is upside down when compared to most coins so if I turn the coin over its top the queen is the right way up.

I'm still struggling to get good photos

Again all help/advice appreciated

Adam Curtis

[AdamCurtis 0]

My rhubarb kitchen scales say 15g but grams are the smallest increments it does I'm afraid.

[azda 973]

Not sure if the cropped version will help, but here we go

[Peter 615]

If the coin has been in the family for 50 yrs was a relative a collector?

Rhubarb scales made be laugh (golden triangle?)

This is the one time I would consider getting it authenticated by CGS.

It will give any prospective buyer assurance and recover in excess of your slabbing cost.

Fingers X for you.

[azda 973]

I agree with Peter' comment above about sending it for authentication, here's the link to CGS

http://www.coingradingservices.co.uk/?page=home

[AdamCurtis 0]

Thanks for your help guys Il let you know how it turns out.

[azda 973]

It will cost £30, but will be worth the outlay if it is genuine, either way you'll find out if it's the real deal or not

[VickySilver 775]

Seconded. But FWIW, the reverse in your second set of pictures appears MUCH better. I am inclined to push it more in the positive direction (genuine), but this is a valuable coin and "in hand" inspection quite frankly would be required.

Keep us posted as there appears to be a good chance that you have the real thing, which if so would imply a value of a couple of thousand pounds!

[Paulus 1,942]

I will also recommend sending it to CGS, if you have no reason to believe it is other than genuine - could be money well spent.

It should weigh 14.1g, if you pop into a jewellers I would expect them to have accurate scales.

Good luck!

Edited October 18, 2015 by Paulus

[Stuntman 264]

How exciting. It looks OK to me, keeping my fingers crossed for you too!

[ozjohn 552]

Given CGS poor judgement in some of their grading what confidence is there with their judgement on if a coin is genuine or not? Do they conduct some special test or is it just weight dimensions etc. plus their experiance?

[ozjohn 552]

Experience!

[Paulus 1,942]

Given CGS poor judgement in some of their grading what confidence is there with their judgement on if a coin is genuine or not? Do they conduct some special test or is it just weight dimensions etc. plus their experiance?

They do make the odd mistake (don't we all) and their grading consistency has been questionable at times, but my personal experience has been positive overall.

Believe me, if Peter thinks it's a good idea to send your coin to them, then that is really saying something!

[ozjohn 552]

I agree an independent opinion is always useful. However I was wondering how CGS determine if a coin is genuine or not. There is also this web site that could help

http://www.coinauthentication.co.uk/index.html . Ray Mathews runs a coin authentication service that employs scientific tests and may be of more use given the potential

of the coin's value . I have no connection with this company whatsoever but I think the methods employed by this service may be more conclusive than CGS who again

I have no connection with other than purchasing some coins from London Coins.

[Rob 2,998]

I agree an independent opinion is always useful. However I was wondering how CGS determine if a coin is genuine or not. There is also this web site that could help

http://www.coinauthentication.co.uk/index.html . Ray Mathews runs a coin authentication service that employs scientific tests and may be of more use given the potential

of the coin's value . I have no connection with this company whatsoever but I think the methods employed by this service may be more conclusive than CGS who again

I have no connection with other than purchasing some coins from London Coins.

Apparently he no longer offers this service having effectively retired to look after his grandchildren, who keep him fully occupied.

[ozjohn 552]

That's a shame. I gave the name as Ray when it should have been Robert. Sorry for the mistake.

[ozjohn 552]

The Royal Mint has a coin authentication service don't know how much it costs also it was rumored that they would keep the coin if it was found to be counterfeit

http://www.royalmintmuseum.org.uk/about-us/historical-and-coinage-advice/index.html

[azda 973]

Given CGS poor judgement in some of their grading what confidence is there with their judgement on if a coin is genuine or not? Do they conduct some special test or is it just weight dimensions etc. plus their experiance?

Grading and authentication are two different entities entirely. We could therefor ask how American companies authenticate a coin, given the fact they have actually slabbed British coins which were fakes. I know which I would prefer. The BNTA also have a list of fakes on their website, as I'm not a member of the BNTA I cannot tell how it operates and again you'd have to ask how they determine a fake from a genuine coin.

CGS would be the only place to send a British coin for authenticity issues in this case.

[argentumandcoins 70]

I don't see much wrong with it other than the rim nicks.

If it has been in the family for a confirmed 50+ years I would be more than happy to say it was genuine (provided the weight could be confirmed to 2 decimal places and it "rings" as silver).

MOST fakes are relatively modern and the earlier ones tend to be poorer quality copies (1905 is a fairly common older type fake and is usually a decent quality).

[Stuntman 264]

What's the forum consensus on grade? I would say Obv GVF, Rev NVF, no idea what this would translate into as a CGS number...

[azda 973]

I'd rather wait for a decent picture.