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DrLarry

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Posts posted by DrLarry


  1. Three new unlisted versions of Princess Helena,  The one listed in Rogers #276 seems to have HELENA written in very small script .  On the three here plus the one in the "PRInce less " set there are four different portrait types all with larger lettering so we must assume that different sets were made up at different times perhaps for each issue. 

    CM221129-204842047 (279x300).jpgCM221129-204902049 (284x300).jpg

    CM221129-204928050 (289x300).jpg

    CM221129-195850037 (300x294).jpg


  2. On 11/27/2022 at 3:55 PM, DrLarry said:

      There appear to be 3 different heads of Queen Victoria Moore may well have cut these different dies for each box variation.  The Size of the queens Head varies in size, one has no colons after REG :one has one Colon dot and a third is typical two colons after REG : The reverse also has differences in the punctuation after each line.  the beading is different some seem to have defined beans others have teeth some have nothing at all.  On one the BUN is enlarged and has an R over an R in REG. this portrait is much larger and the diamonds in the crown much larger 

    CM221127-152323050 (234x420).jpgCM221127-152356051 (207x420).jpg

    CM221127-152506053 (208x420).jpgCM221127-152514054 (213x420).jpg

    for comparison  The one from the PRINCE less set make then 4 dies for the Queens Head 


  3. yes it does seem that all of the medalets in the "PRINCE less" set are different The portrait of Victoria is much more finely cut than all the others  (below) she appears younger 

    CM221129-200010041 (300x299).jpgCM221129-200029042 (296x300).jpg

    CM221129-200121045 (285x300).jpgCM221129-200137046 (299x300).jpg

     

    CM221129-200054044 (185x300).jpg


  4. it is such a useful exercise doing this and posting the images because it is so much easier to compare the similarity and the differences in this tiny characters even under the microscope the brain cannot look so easily at all the same time .  So thanks for the chance to add  new varieties to this great book  by David de Sola Rogers printed by Galata Books in 1990  such a nice things to be able to do on cold evenings :  it's also so astonishingly expensive so perhaps this will get more people interested.  BUT YOU NEED A MICROSCOPE


  5. possible 4th small colons no dot after 9 and no dot after WALES (D) 

     

    actually I just found a fifth version in the set that contained the ALBERT without the Prince 

    CM221129-191204027 (390x400).jpgCM221129-191222028 (391x400).jpg

    This new one is quite a departure the PRINCE on one side the OF WALES on another,  this was found in the ALBERT without PRINCE so if the PRINCELESS version was before ALBERT was made Prince Consort perhaps these are the earliest ones ?  

    CM221129-194441029 (388x400).jpgCM221129-194507030 (386x400).jpg


  6. The Prince of WALES   this comes as no surprise to me but so far I have 5 different  obverse dies for this portrait each of them with differing lettering and remodelled head .  The Small Head (rather crudely cut) large lettering with the P of Prince touching the bust with a distinct beaded border away from the edge;  2. The Long neck (as it says) beaded border ut the bead close to the edge  The P is below the truncation; 3,  seems to have two variants with the P nearer to the point of the back truncation but the lettering of the two seem lightly different the nose (i think) pointing to the space between W and A and the other slightly lower to the A more .  All the reversese are also different 1. has dots and larger lettering ; 2.Colons and spaced beading and a different font; 3. has spaced colons and a dot after WALES

    1. (A)

    CM221129-191010021 (395x400).jpgCM221129-191037022 (387x400).jpg

    2 (B)  

    CM221129-191052023 (397x400).jpgCM221129-191114024 (388x400).jpg

    3. (C)

    CM221129-191132025 (400x396).jpgCM221129-191147026 (393x400).jpg


  7. The reveres are also different :  punctuation marks after 1844 and the size of the lettering differs and a colon between the AUG and 6 

    CM221129-170538018 (360x400).jpgCM221129-170553019 (387x400).jpg

    CM221129-195644032 (400x393).jpg


  8. Prince Alfred  two head types and two reverse  One has an additional curl at the back of the head onto the neck and the neck s more curved ; the other the head is straighter on one he seems to be smiling mouth slightly ajar and the position of the nose is different high on the F and lower on the other the neck is fatter ( in preparation of things to come perhaps)  Again importantly in the PRINCe LESS set there is a third version of the PRINCE ALFRED the mouth is open with different lettering 

    CM221129-170326016 (378x400).jpgCM221129-170341017 (373x400).jpg

    CM221129-195614031 (400x390).jpg


  9. The Princess Royal VICTORIA seems to have the same obverse portrait but has different reverses:  1 is cut with the B of BORN just one the V;  the 2nd have the B on the O and the colons are wider ; the 3rd has a distinct comma after ROYAL . 

    CM221129-164619011 (299x400).jpgCM221129-164935012 (299x400).jpg

    CM221129-165012014 (400x376).jpgCM221129-165033015 (400x396).jpg

    CM221129-164951013 (400x390).jpg


  10. here are the three head types with reverse  1, THE LARGE HEAD

    CM221129-150455001 (400x390).jpgCM221129-152207007 (397x400).jpg

    2. THE SMALL HEAD 

     

    CM221129-150542004 (378x400).jpgCM221129-152227008 (400x382).jpg

    3.  THE INTERMEDIATE HEAD

    CM221129-150705005 (379x400).jpgCM221129-152245009 (400x380).jpg

    from my own n.9  a total of  6 are small heads 1 large head 1 Middle heads and one an ALBERT without Prince 


  11. 5 hours ago, copper123 said:

    I would say probably 30-60  I don't think there are less than 10

    My example anyway

    IMG_20221128_0003.jpg

    Oh OK you think as many as that.  Very Nice I am not 100% but I did try straighten yours and compared it BUT I think yours might be different.  The nose on mine ponts to the lower part of the B yours middle to upper I placed a grid over both in editor and they seem slightly different .  Of course yes I know the grade is different that can play tricks with the eyes but the sculpting of the face the profile line looks different. 


  12. 23 hours ago, copper123 said:

    I too have a single ALBERT piece not sure how rare it is but there are at least two existing mine is in much better grade than yours though

    I think in terms of total numbers we are likely only dealing with no more than 4 or 5 examples surviving that are known.  Did you share your s with him when he was writing because the one in the image in the book is an uncirculated one.


  13. The PRINCE ALBERT medalet   as far as I can see has 3 versions a large head variety where the nose points to the Gap between B and E ;  a second which has the nose pointing to lower part of the B ; a third which has the nose pointing to the middle of the B. 

     

    A reverse associated with the large head has full punctuation and an 8 over an 8 ; a reverse punctuated only at the end most have an R over R in MARRIED , it may be that the one punctuated after 1819 and 1840 is simply the result of a fill.  

    these medalets were made by Joseph Moore made as novelties.  Other model coins seem to have had a more serious role discussed in more detail in Rogers page 37.  they may have been made in or before 1844 (rogers) and continued to be sold after 1848 Interestingly Prince Arthur 7th son was not included but it may exists.  

     

    It would not be surprising for there to be many variations and the size of the smaller ones must have been hard to view without good microscopes and the advantage of digital photography when Rogers wrote the Toy Coins Book.  


  14. 3 hours ago, copper123 said:

    I am pretty sure my 1902 hairy head farthing is copper coated iron but its in such great nick I dont fancy scratching it to find out.

    Sounds like rogers spotted the farthing specialist 1849 quarter farthing too late after John had sold it to another collector and he never found another one , life's like that for coin collector's isn't it?

    yes true  you generally have to be a snatch and grab merchant .....


  15. 1 hour ago, copper123 said:

    I too have a single ALBERT piece not sure how rare it is but there are at least two existing mine is in much better grade than yours though

    Oh good I'm glad there is a better one .  Take some pics for me please 


  16. 1 hour ago, copper123 said:

    The answer to the "Albert " coin might be quite simple Albert was given the title "Prince consort" in the middle of 1857 so the "albert" coin was possably an early version before he was titled that of course means all the rest were post  summer 1857.

    How rotten is this country giving him this title  so late

    Yes that makes sense otherwise it's pretty disrespectful 


  17. On 11/25/2022 at 8:25 PM, copper123 said:

     

      There appear to be 3 different heads of Queen Victoria Moore may well have cut these different dies for each box variation.  The Size of the queens Head varies in size, one has no colons after REG :one has one Colon dot and a third is typical two colons after REG : The reverse also has differences in the punctuation after each line.  the beading is different some seem to have defined beans others have teeth some have nothing at all.  On one the BUN is enlarged and has an R over an R in REG. this portrait is much larger and the diamonds in the crown much larger 

    CM221127-152323050 (234x420).jpgCM221127-152356051 (207x420).jpg

    CM221127-152506053 (208x420).jpgCM221127-152514054 (213x420).jpg


  18. I think as you also showed the queens Scent Box  set I thought it might be a good idea to share some of the other Royal Family sets  too.  There appear to be many more variations than listed in Rogers Section 06 # 270 to 278.  Most of the differences are in the design of the portraits.  I found a set recently with the rare ALBERT without the PRINCE I am assuming that the set in a complete set so may help with this issue.  I have found the VICTORIA without the REG but it was not associated with a set so I cannot verify what was issued with it.  As I have shown above the design of the WINDSOR CASTLE BOX has four or more variations assumably had various issues associated with them .  

    Rogers #271 and # 270 a.  10.5 mm 

    CM221127-130126041 (412x420).jpgCM221127-130151042 (386x420).jpg

    CM221127-130832043 (406x420).jpgCM221127-130850044 (412x420).jpg

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