DrLarry

yes I dont think they are long enough as you say Jerry

sure but it is in terrible condition I purchased a load of "dug" coins for a £5 I have not really looked at it properly you may well tell me it is nothing just looked a little different to me

i have asked myself that very same question many times it made no sense to me at all , other than the fact that there are no others until 1926 are there ? I always assumed that is the only rational answer ....but I agree it is a very strange thing

oh really on two dates? just goes to show there are so many things we have not yet discovered and as you say tip of the iceberg who is to say what someone might find !!!

yes I am pretty much done with buying I have thousands to prepare and admire across the ages from staters to sixpences 3000 years of history is enough even for me ....I did find one of those funny old 1922's with the strange trident detached from the teeth the other day. My modified 26's sadly would not rank high on my best of bunch

oh he was the Croatian that scored was he not. I am sure he is quite lovable but I have no idea what he is like, other than he scores goals

you will be happy to know that I have spent the last couple of days looking at the area around the ribbons of the 1967 and a set of very similar arrangements are showing up very nicely using the new method. I have taken about 150 images which I am preparing now for you. Not wishing to direct your interpretation I have to accept that these are not the easiest things to see initially and to understand the closest approximation I can find is Guernica by Picasso the content is obvious and a bull is a BULL AS a lion is a lion in this but they form a series of interconnecting overlapping patterns like a Venn diagram some of which show visual distortion and altered simultaneous perspective (similar to the way cubism works or modernism) and before anyone jumps of the historical inadequacy that modernism did not exist at the time of William III early proto geometric art or cycladic art also shows some aspects of fractured altered perspective in the 8 C BC and pieces like the Lion Man from Germany is animalism non realism and that is what 40.000 years BP

I took that picture in 2006 ten years I started finding them. it is about the only picture that i have ever been happy looking at, I am not of the selfie generation. I am a leo and my name is Larry like the Lamb, it is well noted in my book that this bizarre set of connectives has not gone unnoticed by me too. I also spent many years looking after lions and big cats walking with Cheetahs and almost every day with a lion or ten sitting above my head with me in the cage feeding them and I have been squirted over by tigers and one of the few people in the world silly enough or unique enough to have stuck my finger between the pads of a large Bengal tigers Paw. I also love tigger and winnie the pooh but that does not make me bouncy. I also love Trilobites but I have never found an image of arthropod in a coin as yet. But I enjoyed your interjection, have a point, because the audience enjoyed the challenge.

I do think as a very obvious outsider to this that you all should be very proud of what they achieved and I think that young manager showed a wisdom and philosophy that has been lacking in a lot of football for many years. I have to admit a sense of pride listening to him over the last few weeks. I hope it impacts on all things football over the coming years ....but well done

well it seems to have gone very silent in here ????

I will concede that I do hope things go well for you all tonight .........

it was the E on the 53 that intrigued me hence the reason to collect so many. Please let there not be other things that interest me I am not sure I will afford it in the future.

Morning Ian, when you were looking at the 53's could you tell me did you ever come across one that has a raised dot in the field toward the outer edge across from the right side of the portrait? Many thanks Larry

Yes one chewed a lump out of me the other day and drew blood. I felt guilty about it but I did kill it, I felt the need to.

well done afnail for approaching this in the way you have. I have been trying to do the same for features of the 1861 and 62 halfpenny but ended up with far too many column descriptors. I enjoy reading about variations and much appreciate your work.

yes very true they do . Scott, if you are referring to the above broken letters ,these are in pennies the 1861 in fact in one particular penny broken letters I am happy to just let pass by what interests me is if any are then repaired using letters not meant for purpose, like the I over the T it's purely an anorak interest for me and I like to ask others if they also have noted it. I understand there are some very detailed works but I cannot afford them. I wish some of these extensive and deep books could be digitally made available such a lot gets missed. It is a shame that the big libraries cannot come up with an idea that distributes the burden to digitise by coming up with an idea of lending the scanners or utilising the scanners that each of us have and asks individuals to take on the responsibility of scanning research books , even if each of us did a few pages each day eventually the books would be digitised.

no It turned out I only had 48 a little short of my 80 prediction my apt to thinking I have more than I have when I see a sheet full of them soon it will be time to sell off a load and be a little more selective, I just love these old copper pennies as much as I love the bronzes yet it is hard to imagine carrying them around in the pocket shocking really any survived at all not battered and dented and scratched to pieces.

is the large 5 variety reasonably common ?

I can describe it for you which might help me and you. It is a little like a complex geometric KNOT, but rather than containing geometric lines as similar patterns do in islamic art and celtic art this one uses a triangulated association of animals, namely a Lion and usually associated with two smaller "cubs" or "lambs" in the first instance. There is a lot of artistic ambiguity in the form and it is anatomically possible that it is either or both ( as lamb and cub each have triangular forms bounded by the ears and the nose of similar dimensions at a young age ) . All of these rely on a triangular tessellation pattern. However it is complex but if you stick with the "triangle" idea alone the pattern "rotates... it moves" in the same way that a stop frame dynamic painting or picture shows movement it can do this because there are set points in the arrangement the ears, eyes, and nose. in a remarkable way the triangulation points "move" move independently yet each one contributes to the next in a ribbon like flow. So there is a definite geometry to it similar to what in modern day we would call a triangular fractal like growth pattern which uses a simple device of the sharing of elements to make up a larger form. One remarkable feature of it is, which gives it a beautiful pathos, that lion to "lamb" noses touch or the Lion licks the the Lamb. Of course this may well have an allegorical meaning Lion as protector and security but also carer together with the most obvious reference to Kingship and Protector and also Christian motif Lion and Lamb. I fully accept the bizarre nature of the theory but I am happy to continue to research it. In later coins I believe some other "knots" are added one of which appears to be a jumble linear code using the motif of HONI SOIT QUE MAL Y PENSE and a triangular association similar to the Lion Lamb one which uses the George and Dragon image. The Two later "knots" I have only thus far found to begin in the Bronze series from 1860 and there is some overlap. I only noticed it at first in the Bronze series and thought that it may have been the remnant of the "lost" design of LCW lost as a result of technical problems with the new material. (there appears to be obscure references suggesting that the first designs would not work as the relief was too high and the die had to be recut forced on the artist by the material change in 1859 1860 ) Initially I noticed that in coins buried in the soil that a pattern seemed to emerge suggesting a variable rate to corrosion and this often followed some type of non random line. There are lines which do not appear to be the result of wear or random nature. These cross the surface of the design passing through the extant design and it is these cross cutting lines that the method using lamp black and fat help me to plot. If nothing else they will show that across the surface these "cross cuts" are not random as they appear again and again in the same shape or position. The most obvious of these triangles can be seen in the shield and in the area below the drapes which pick out underlying pattern and it intrigues me if this is an intentional act or not. Other forum members have pointed out the stupidity of the idea and questioned its purpose and the method by which it might be delivered to the coin face. Together with the difficulty in the theory of how any "authority" could recognises if there is a problem with counterfeiting. Hence the need to identify a simple method or recognition which is where I returned to first principles of finding a method that could be used with materials available at the time. The method of application of this "hidden" pattern I can only assume to either by etching onto the die or etching onto the blanks. This raises the many problems that have been pointed out by members and in general I am considered the resident crack pot LOL.....but I persist for no other reason than the novelty of the approach and the skills of observation it has afforded me. I have spent my life in these strange "no man's land" scenarios so as long as my constitution holds I will try see this through to the end point. If it is not there it will make for a very funny, poignant and reflective book on the onset of mental health issues. But for now I still believe in my own sanity at least. I had hoped that a few more adventurous members would join in my quest but that seems unlikely for the moment as they cannot suspend the initial barrier to the idea , which I fully understand as I had them myself three years ago when I started to question this. As a scientist I am happy to nullify it, at some point, but not until the negative evidence outranks the positives and so far the positive is winning (in my mind). The patterns exists in Gold and Silver (often easier to see in fact) and the other metals

yes I will do once I have done a full set . I have been at it three years so no rush at the end and I would like to let you see the replication of the form in a number of different denominations and over time

i had tried graphite a couple of years ago but it was too reflective and the contrast was less obvious than I thought it might be. This new method allows me to make images and I can not unravel the Knot pattern with greater ease.

I just want to say thanks to all pf you that questioned me and pushed me I think I have gone back and considered method and purpose a lot since you did so I started at first principal and thought what would be available and why it is my method I have used the past few years gave me the results. I think now I have solved the riddle using very simple rudimentary materials and have began to get some good results. It was as simple as animal fat and lamp blacking which gets into the surface pattern and brings it forward. It has helped me begin to search in a more productive way so thanks

1860 penny B over D or O or R toothed LCW L C Wyon high trunc could you take a look and see if there are others around THanks Larry your thoughts please : there is an upstanding arc of metal in the upper loop, an addition on the right side, removal of something with an angled leg (blue) and an extension out of the back left (blue) with finishing "flicks" as in the old curly lettering. However in the negative image (second) there are lines which seem to pass through the metal indicating something like a D or an O

it is a difficult one to follow after looking at the reverse light example 3 it appears that the bottom "internal loop" may be connected to the upper internal metal strip there is a very fine line through the metal or at least it appears there is , In fig 1 you can make out a straighter leg angle of about 110 degrees

I would like to start a new and I think, important feed. I want to ask you to consider if we are losing out on greater understanding of coins in our collections because people are hesitant to be upfront about oddities, errors, over stamping, and other varieties? I have many examples of 1 type of strange coin in my collections it may be for example an 1860 penny where there is what appears to be an R under a B in BRITT. I sit around looking and looking for pieces to confirm this but hesitate to ask others. Am I hesitating because I want to be the first to find something and as a result miss out as a group activity to compare and share? If I look at a coin and see something odd I have a tendency either to pass it off as a singular error when it could be something others have seen. In the spirit of openness I would like to start to share my strange coins and hope that I do not upset anyone but undermining some economy associated with collecting, simply because I would hope think that we collect because of interest in the subject not just how much some coin is worth. I will begin with the 1846 shilling with three colons after REG :. The R under B in the 1860 penny the Possible B under R half penny 1862 could be just a die run but seemingly corresponding to the "strange sticky out bit" commonly seen on 1861 and 1862 half pennies in BRITT.