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DrLarry
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Everything posted by DrLarry
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19 th C electrotype by One of the Ready Family
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- machins mills
- richard coleman
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I suppose not strictly counterfeit but replicas made in the 19th Century were actually sold by the British Museum. The process used by the Ready family using the technique or electrotyping. With the discovery of electroplating came a new technique .. we cannot really call them counterfeit but they were often sold to collectors as originals . They in themselves are now very rare and command high prices . They were after all made for research and are of the highest quality or workmanship. I thought I would include them for interest. the first is an alexander tetradrachm of Lysimachus weighing 14.9 gm verses the 17 gms of the original . The second is Alexander in elephant headdress with a reverse of a striding Athena 13.50 gms. the third with Hercules on the reverse killing the Nemean Lion 9 gms Electrotyping involves taking a mould of the item being copied, then placing the mould in an electrolytic solution, so that a thin layer of copper is deposited to the desired thickness. A coin or medal required the preparation of two electrotypes, which would then be joined around a base metal blank to form an accurate copy of the original; this would then be coated with a thin layer of metal such as gold, silver or copper to replicate the original. The Readys would typically (although not invariably) stamp the edge of the electrotype with initials to indicate it was a copy; they variously used 'RR', 'R' or 'MB'. Weighing a copy and the original was sometimes the only way to differentiate them, if an initial had not been stamped on the copy. I have three made in the 19th C by the family employed by the BM The Ready Family they are stamped with their typical BM or TR stamp one on the edge the other on the face. The weight is exactly the same the original and they are impossible to distinguish
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I have contacted Gunter Achoff who has done the mainstay of research and I am awaiting a copy of the book the Toy Museum in Nuernberg put me in touch with him.
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- model coins
- lauer
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that's a better picture of the whole building . I just thought it interesting that it is all we have left of the story apart from the coins. Yes I also have not been yet but will do sometime soon as you say it is a beautiful part of the world. Nice to paint I am sure
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and then there is this little monkey which I have been advised is a fake but is gold weighing in at 5.74 grams nicely crafted and at 30mm and about 0.5 mm a gold imitation of an Elizabeth 1st half pound someone somewhere put in a lot of work to make this but the lettering gives it away
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charles II Guinea any thoughts? it would seem a little bit of a waste of time to replicate something quite well and only shave off 0. 32 grams. of gold
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yes well I will mark it as not sure then .......it does seem a lot of hard work but then I am not motivated to defraud in perhaps the same way LOL ....I am trying to work out it a Charles II Guinea I have is authentic or not ....have you ever encountered any? this one is off by .32 grams the edge seems a bit flat so it may have lost some of its edge perhaps as jewelry
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OK I will look again I had thought they were 1.7 gms I will re-examine it
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I suppose you just have to wait for Mr Magoo walking past and off load it to him hoping for the best .....
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- machins mills
- richard coleman
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gggg yes but two IIII pences seem to have been soldered together to give the weight it weighs twice the weight of one 4 pence
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I tested the metal and it is sterling with gold gilding and weighs 3.4 grams I assume the purpose was to make the Gold Crown but I am sure you will put me right if I am wrong with this one it weighs 3.4 grams ...I could be wrong but of some interest
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I am certain that many Victorian and Georgian coiners realised the potential of copying collectable coins I have little or no experience of these early copies here is a blog that may help: https://www.all-your-coins.com/en/blog/antique/comment-identifier-une-fausse-monnaie-antique My first examples come from Charles 1st a cast it is cast copy i believe of a half crown ; my second has been carefully made to deceive a clever forgery I think two silver Aberystwyth 1111 pence's merged together and then gilded The Half Crown weighs 11.85 grams and seems to have been constructed of 2 thin layers of silver with a copper alloy core
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- machins mills
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Yes I did lol not sure why the guinea was rejected 😅 maybe the language flow was just wrong ! I listened to it a few years back I think on radio 4 . Thanks again
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oh thank you so much I am listening to it now
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I heard back from the Toy Museum in Nurnberg and the director has put me in touch with a researcher who has written the core book in German. There is no national Collection of toy coins in Germany. One interesting thing that you may like to know is that the old BALMBERGER factory still exists and still has the factory titles still in place and it is now a cafe . I will add the image of it tomorrow which was kindly sent to me.
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The Book I refer to is by Thomas Levenson : by faber and faber ... Newton and the counterfeiter
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yes he certainly seems to have been pretty innovative and yes I am surer he saw the potential earning power of novelty. I dont know much about the man himself perhaps there are books about him and his motivation as there seem to be about a number of personalities involved in the coin production .
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I will still keep going adding Lauer's and others there is a lot to say about the pennies in the series which show lots of variation. But I have also started a thread on Counterfeit evasions and Cont Counterfeits as well.
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Where to start ? I am happy to be guided by your great experiences you have all been collecting far longer than I. Knowing whether something is contemporary or recent is a pretty important reason why I would like to run this thread. The story is interesting at least and involves some interesting and important characters in History. I became fascinated by counterfeiting after reading a book on Sir Isaac Newton and his attempts to reduce the counterfeiting in the late 17th C but ,of course, the practice is much much older. No doubt as soon as the idea of the "coin" came about so did the criminal counterfeiter. It interests me because I wonder how far the population knows of "light money" and is party to the sharing and passing on of such coins and notes. I am never happy unless I have considered the social history even if I might never know the answers I still like to think and search for answers. Lacking access to a good library ( I miss the British Library) I think I have reflected in past times on searching for the one book I mentioned being unavailable for national loan and the irony of the only copy in County Durham happened to be in Durham Jail, a centre of learning ! So please take me back to your oldest counterfeits my oldest I think is only Charles 1st.
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No it is not most definitely not it is a new one I found just thought I would list it it is by GO. not sure who that might be but there is a section in Rogers which has many of these in but none so far for 1907
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This one I think may also be new the design matches Rogers 751 but I dont yet have it but is 22mm compared with the 1.5 mentioned in Rogers and instead of 1909 it is dated 1907 there are others in the listing following #751 that are also 22mm with a reeded edge ndates 1908 and 19092 and 1911 certainly seems to fit into section 41 it is signed G O
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yes of course I have said you can use whatever is needed to improve our knowledge
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in fact I actually think the portrait is a much more realistic interpretation of an old lady
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Here is something NEW it is 12mm and about 0.8 mm thick not iron and gilded the design is something completely new to me at least and from an artistic point of view I would rate it as pretty good , there is a minor error in the crafting of the far side eye but i'd give is 7 out of 10 for effort. I Found it in Australia so it's still a little jet lagged having been flown over with a friend on Saturday. The modelling of the George Dragon is nicely done no date but we can assume it was made post 1887 for some exhibition ???? a toy maker?? she weighs 0.9 gms
