DrLarry

Sorry the last time I came in before this most recent one was a few years back when ill and was a bit bonkers. Hence I don't know @Rob .so thank you for the direction I did not know he had book interests but I will ask him now I do know.

OK so you were advising me to talk to someone on the forum thank you for the context.

apologies for my ignorance which Rob?

yes I rang him yesterday and asked, he said possibly the page needs updating and they dont have one. But thanks

does anyone have a copy of this Book Counterfeit Copper Coins by R Coleman does anyone know if a digital version is available also please Many thanks

I have purchased a number of complete mistakes over the years. The worst was a slabbed 1837 Penny which when it arrived from the US turned out to be a half penny. It is so difficult buying in the US when they slab everything to use my eyes to check. Of course the seller was adamant it could not be a half penny because the NGC had told them so

I am surprised that you cannot buy them from china it would be a much better sale than a fake penny and a lot less straining on their side , but obviously not any easier on Victoria's

I saw one of those for sale the other day I nearly bought it

I am glad someone has a sense of humour on here I was starting to wonder

After finding that 2009 silver proof in the Family Silver proof set with great shreds of metal hanging off the side I am not sure how good the quality control is this one got through 9 years ago I only noticed it when I saw scratches on the inside of the capsule and realised the silver shards were so high they were damaging the plastic. Oh I see on yours the fingerprint is on the coin not on the capsule. In all the pretty images of them preparing the proofs they are wearing lovely white gloves

yes logically what you say is the case this one does provide evidence for it. I just wondered if anyone had experiences where something they sent was questioned by the company. I was searching for experiences rather than answers, as you say I have answered my own on this one.

The other issue here is that the artist/engraver in the case of the Bronze series was contracted to make the stamps for the legend initially if I understand his diaries correctly. It would seem however that he made some kind of error and miscalculated which meant that corrections had to be done and the dies altered. It has always been in the ambiguity in the references to the process that for the life of me I cannot settle on. It says quite clearly in the statements in the house and explanations given at the time and after that the "original design could not be completed in the process because the engraver (L C Wyon) ha made the relief too deep and the new metal made the original design unmanageable. It suggests that the engraver was sent away to recut or remodel the design to a simplified form which we see now . The Pattern Bronzes pretty much seem to follow the extant version we are used to , but some suggestion is made to a die with alternatives (perhaps) standing Britannia , a more complex design (altogether more beautiful than the one we have) that suffered because of the technical difficulties. THe engraver had to make alterations. Ok so we do not have much to go on but certainly it would seem, reading between the lines , that this Britannia was not what he really wanted or originally cut, possibly with a number of now lost characters in the design. It seems more that the politicians and the more conservatives were insisting on a seated Britannia (as had been the way ince 1672.) Of course I know it is most unlikely that we will ever know but if the page remains open that one day we may discover what these designs might be , perhaps in some archive that was sent along with the image of the "standing Britannia " with the family to New Zealand or in some other archive. One day in some dusty old place some of the workings of the Royal Mint at this time may be discovered. This approach seems to be of no interest at all even to the ardent of penny collectors. It was for this reason ad this reason alone that I pointed out the artistic anomalies , the artistic errors that are such rudimentary school boy errors in the design that it surprised me that no one seemed to find such criticism of the "holy grail" or the strange story that must be part of this regarding the signature. I shall read again all the diaries of L C Wyon ( not that they are of great use) or perhaps the problem is that I am only reading the diaries as presented to us in the the book by Mr Attwood. any ways the point I am making is that there seem to be radical alterations of the lettering from the older curly style in some dies to a more "solid" lettering style and on many specimens you can clearly see the overstamping which is a style change so yes they can any one be over-punched, but Wyon cut the punches originally for the farthing, half penny and the penny. I believe that the original style was the more slender , "fancy" lettering you see altered and this may have been due to a second set of punches he had to prepare (less elegant or more robust). By saying that the artist cut the punches for the lettering , whilst I respect that you can use any old C or G lying around a set of a particular style were made by him for purpose.

A general question: The other day I was looking through the US site on Ebay and saw that someone had sent away "a lauer miniature with corrosion" to be slabbed by the NGC grading company. Does anyone know if slabbing is so cheap in the US or perhaps you can get freebies that would make sense of sending a tiny token 13mm damaged worth about £1 at a push to them for grading? Also do these places not have some kind of ethical customer service where they might say "stop" to the person asking such a token being slabbed? I noticed a price tag on it of £49 or maybe $49 cannot remember!

True ...but I suppose in most cases discoveries are made looking in the wrong place for different answers and daring to look