Cliff

More Pics - Meandering Sea levels

Tidal Meanderings: I have a Gouby 1898A F149 that appears to exhibit all the 'w' reverse characteristics that it should, except that I am also seeing 2 (poss 3?) sea levels on the right hand side which I would please like opinion on (even if it's only a suggerstion to "Go to Specsavers". My lower sea level appears to be Gouby's Rev 'v' (his definition says "The sea, on the right, is in line with the top of the rock shelf at her right foot" but all the pics I have seen, including Gouby's, have this sea level slightly lower than the top of the rock - as per my example). I count 9 teeth from the exergual line to the 'v' sea level. My 'middle' sea level appears to be at the intended Rev 'w' level. Gouby's Rev 'w' sea level states "The sea level, on the right, extends 1/3 of the way up, from the top of the rock shelf to where the left and right leg crosses". This 'middle' sea level (albeit very thick and rough - perhaps filled?), I count as 10 teeth from the exergual line. There is also a 'top' sea level that does not appear to go all the way across to tough the leg. I count this as 10.5 teeth up and appears a much more precise attempt (perhaps intended to replace a fudged 'middle'level repair????). Point to ponder: IF this was a spare Rev 'v' die that they were altering, for whatever reason, it would show as 2mm from trident to P of PENNY (or would it?), My coin shows 1mm with the P of PENNY to a tooth.

I'm afraid the blue tone is because of my lack of photographic skill, the coin itself has an attractive dark chocolate hue to it. I don't take many pics and use a microscope when I do. This can lead to the centre of a coin being focussed whilst leaving the outer edges blurred (teeth, date etc). It's also difficult to take natural light only shots and, when using the scope lights, it tends to give the blue reflection. Suffice to say, I need to experiment with a camera and try to get my act together.

Pics as requested..Please forgive zilch photographic skills.

Re: 1918 KN widths. In David Groom's book my tired old eyes are seeing that he pictures the Wide KN as being 5 teeth wide between the vertical of the K and the RH vertical of the N. The K and N also 'looks' further apart than the Narrow width KN picture, which is 4 teeth between the same K and N verticals (or there a bouts)? Perhaps there are varieties, as with the many date spacing varieties? Have attached pics of my 1918 KN Bird's foot (complete with sideboards) which also shows the Obv die faults mentioned earlier in this thread. The Rev also shows the trident handle fault, although not as obvious as shown in previous postings.

The story: I put my 1880 8/8 on eBay Thurs evening then went away for a few days. A gentleman kindly contacted me Fri morning to say he thought I'd mixed my eBay pics. It appeared I had but wasn't able to double check (being away) and therefore 'ended' the auction before creating further confusion for interested parties and embarrassment for myself. I'm now back home, I had cocked up and am now rethinking my picture storage labelling. Apologies to anyone this may have inconvenienced. The gentleman who contacted me is now the new owner and I would like to again thank him for his prompt action. Cliff

Pete Thought I'd replied hours ago but now see it didn't go. Tried again with pics but can't seem to get them under the 500k acceptable limit, will have a go some other time (I'm now away for a few days). Essentially, yes, I have a much better example (two close ups attached). My full view shots are always pretty grim so tried to attach the seller's pics but can't get the programme to accept them as it rejects them as being too large and I haven't yet figured a way to reduce them enough. Will give it some thought and try again. Cliff

Don't know about hundreds of 'em Pete but there are 5 shown/mentioned within this short thread! Someone, with far more knowledge than me regarding Pennies, told me 2 or 3 years back that he knew of (perhaps it was an informed guess?) that there were about 10 known at the time. I suspect there are more known now but 'say' between 25 and 50 gives you Freeman R17, Michael Gouby's Ex Rare and Peck's Very Rare. My eBay sign in is alin8051 Pete and I look forward to seeing your bids tomorrow!!! Cliff

Probably swamp the market now but will be putting attached up on eBay tomorrow for your consideration.

Variation on the heat gun? I bought a Penny which had been lacquered and recalled having read (afraid I don't remember where) the following removal method: POUR boiling water directly on to the coin then quickly dab the lacquer off whilst it's still hot. Sounds drastic and a 'no way'. It is not a thing I would normally recommend but, as in this instance, it worked and I'm pleased with the result, thought I'd pass it on for your consideration. Did this a few months ago and no adverse effects (to date?).

Just read rashenley2's "work in progress" on his englishpennies site re Michael Gouby's BP 1860P, R, S, T and V sub-varieties (F15). The easy to read narratives and comments, combined with the excellent pictorial examples are brilliant.

Good pics of the die fault rooneydog. To get back to your original question as to whether your coin is a small date: Michael Gouby gives a good definition of the 1859 SMALLER size date. Probably the easiest identifier is "Large border tooth is central below 5". He previously mentions that the 1859 Large date has the 5 to the right of the 'doubled' border tooth.

"Cropped" die fault - to show fault from left, along base of neck and out the other side. Cliff

Please see attached pic of my 1859 Small Date which appears to have same/similar die fault as your example (plus 'blip' on rim beneath date). Will try to send better pic of complete die crack as receive "file was to big to upload" when I try to send the two pics. Cliff

Lack of information may be because many don't hold these as being English Coins as only issued for use in Malta. Peck lists 1827 coin under P1453 , mentions 12 berries in the wreath, and lists 1835 coin as P1477 (also catalogues Proof examples for both dates). Rotographic's Collectors' Coins 2015, 41st edition gives some explanation re (all?) of the third Farthings and lists their Peck references. I note they mention 1878 has large and small date versions with the scarcer small date not being documented. Trust this may help a little but confess to knowing nothing about Farthings of any size and have just stumbled across the above! Cliff

I too hope this topic expands. Any pics I take are completely 'hit or miss' (more miss than hits!) and I would appreciate any help that anyone may wish to offer. My 'full view' pics especially often don't do do my coins the justice they deserve.

Congratulations re the 1863 Open 3 Penny Jerry and thanks for confirming that I did actually see it - I thought I'd drempt it! Cliff

Thanks for the welcome to the site Pete and for the Heads Up re Steve's "My Penny (Tray) Collection". I've actually been aware of his splendid website presentation for some time and frequently drool over his collection when seeking pictorial answers to many of the Penny questions I come up with! Thanks again Cliff

Point to ponder: If anyone is still in need of a 1897 Higher Sea Penny there is one currently on ebay, BIN £4.99. Trouble is it's been made into a guitar plectrum! I will now run for cover.

Hello everyone, I'm new to this so please be gentle! I've noticed previous postings on this forum re 1862 Farthing, small 8 over large 8. I have no knowledge of Farthings but noticed a ND Small '8' over large '8' in my Rotographic copy. I have a coin that I think might qualify but have not been able to verify and attach some (not very good pics) of my coin in the hope that someone will see 'what I think I see' and can verify. Regards Cliff

Evening All For your info: Have sent full images to Colin for him to look at with his expert eye. Please see attached couple of pics to keep you in the picture (awful pun!). The outline of the lower face can be seen on on the Rev pic (result of clashed dies). I don't know how often this is found on Farthings but is common enough on early QV Pennies. Cliff

Thanks Colin. Following earlier advice I'd had a look at your site and seen the very helpful info on the thin verses fat 8 (thanks for the pointer George) but, as you'd correctly zoomed in on, my pondering's were regarding a small 8 over a large 8. You describe exactly what 'I think I'm seeing' and can only apologise that my photographic attempts don't capture fully what I see/think is there. Reckon the halfpenny 8 stamp you suggest would cover it. Whilst the coin itself is quite decent it's sod's law that the date area is perhaps not as good. I'll have another go 'when the sun is next out' as my photographic/lighting-skills (?) depend heavily upon what light comes through my window! Regards to all Cliff

Thanks very much for the prompt response. Whilst I don't (yet??) collect farthings, I've just had a quick look at Colin's site and am impressed by the wealth of 'visual' info shown there. I'll be checking what few farthings I've accumulated over the years there shortly. Cliff