coin watch

Part of the problem here is that Spink can never be more than a general guide. It states quite clearly that the indicated price is for the commoonest type. If you get a rarity though, the price may exceed that listed many fold. If you are into anything even vaguely esoteric, the only solution is to do your homework. So true regarding Spink base pricing, a prime example of this that I know of is Spink 2766, the 1a3 type Charles I half crown is found with the cross calvary mint mark on (for what I have seen) 95% of the coins (about 20% lightweights) available, so while still a scarce coin the 'book' price is a good guide for this coin, but the negro head mark also listed under 2766 is known on only 3 coins held in private hands whilst the castle on only 2 known privately, compare this to the same mark on the type 1b (with plume- S.2767) it becomes very clear how rare these coins are but only recognized with further study. So while the Spink guide is well regarded it's worth remembering it is just that 'a guide'

First, it depends where you live, assuming its the UK, then they seem very much relaxed when opening packets from the USA etc. There is no tax to be paid on anything inside the EU, anything outside can be charged tax, but only if they open the package. I live in Germany, and the bar stewards open EVERYTHING from outside the EU, so i have no choice but to pay 7% on the value over 22 euros, under that is free, so i tend to either not buy outside the EU or ask the seller to drop the price on the customs label. I've also bought from an AU auctionhouse, and they had a very clever was of disguising what was inside. It was like a small book, to thick pieces of cardboard, when i opened it, it was like an advertisement for stamps etc, but taped under that was my 500$ worth of coins, very impressed I'm always amazed at the speed that this forum picks things up, thanks ForumGod Are there no documents (custom's declarations, etc.) that the auction houses are obliged to put on the packets they send out that would get them picked up by the UK customs' bods? I tend to have this happen with the larger auction houses, and recently got charged import duty, and a nice administration charge by the postal company for paying it for me There is no import duty for coins entering the UK but anything over £18 attracts 5% VAT. I have had to pay on a few occassions but what really stings is the Parcel Force fees for collecting the VAT. From memory it's about £12 The import duty limit rate of £18 dropped to £15 as of last month (Oct 11) but the 5% reduced rate of VAT for antiques remains the same.

My basic way of thinking is where is all the fairness gone? When we mention greed we automatically think firstly of the banks, and rightly so, we also mention oil and energy companies, and again rightly so with the oil, but with the energy companies (I used to work for one)..well i think they should have stayed nationalised and been considered with pride as a service rather than a profit making machine, as Rob says the net profit example shows are comparatively low, all privatisation has done is weaken the workforce and the poor sods who are still with these montsers are working longer and longer hours for less pay but more worrying less pension at the end of it all. Yes business and capitalism is very important to a society like ours, it always has been, but the top end has ripped the guts out of the whole system and now the results are beginning to show and for 90% of us the future is going to change. Could this have been avoided...Yes of cousre it could, but was it ever ment to be?!! I cannot buy decent coins anymore, well not the top ones anyway, but I'm still in it for the hobby and study which I think is most important. As for credit well I've never had a loan in my life nor a mortgage, nothing clever in that just took notice of my mum when she said to me "if you cant afford it you cant have it" so save, save, save is what I did, add this to the motivation to get out of an ever decreasing crap hole of an inner London estate then this should be an example of a low educated individual making something with hard work and a lot of planning while still thinking of others (wife,kids etc) What I am trying to say is this whole mess is down to GREED pure and simple. 1950's & 1960's just a little before my time, but from what my elders have told me these seem to have been the better times to have lived in, I dont mean material wealth but family, friends and community wealth. This does not exist now like it did then, not quite in "mud huts" but poorer and I think happier, but then it was not long after the last WAR!!!

The simple word for this is GREED, one of the deadly 7! As a collector I can see this entering our hobby, but I feel I'm ok because as a hobby collector my interest is in the hobby itself. OK I might not be able to purchase the better coins in the near future because of these GREEDY gits but I know my knowledge and patience will see me ok. Never been religious....but then, hmmm

"Mystique" yes I agree a new coin to the market has made the interest greater in the past but I feel this mystigue can become weaker and replaced with doubt when thinking on the ever increasing amount of modern fakes entering the market lately. With this in mind you can't beat a well known provenance to add that final premium.

I too really dont understand the comment about a coin fetching less because it was seen publicly? do you mean whilst a coin is still in a collection but shown regularly? like on a museum site or something then later if sold on it might well sell for less?? confused?! I would say a coin that is well known from say an old collection and which has been photographed many times would stand a greater chance of a good sale. As for the internet, well I like to think we Brits are pretty much ok with the progress of the net, if our good old British reserve is holding us back then I like to think it is also protecting us as it has always done, those who hesitate loose out but also fools rush in!!! BTW....no blood boiled, just confused!

Hi all, Been having a few thoughts of late with regard to coin collecting as a hobby and what the future holds for it. My main things that have lead me to these thoughts are the growing interest in auction houses and the ever increasing premiums they now charge (20% + VAT in most cases) and the ongoing lack of stock the dealers seem to be getting hold of, is this a good or bad thing? I know the dealers are in it for the trade but some still do help the collector and give helpful advise to the starter, with this in mind I kind of think the hobby would be worse without the traditional coin dealer. Also what impact does the internet hold for the hobby..good or bad? So just wondered what your thoughts could be on the future for a coin collector?

For new collectors - especially the young without much money - the chance of getting good coins to start a collection, is less and less. Common coins are around in abundance though, so if youngsters stick to those, there's still hope. But upgrading to get good stock requires more and more outlay, which is great for existing collectors with decent coins, but I'd say the long-term outlook isn't that great for newbies. If the current interest subsides though, and prices see the sort of 'correction' that house prices saw, who knows? But, the stock of predecimal coins is finite and getting smaller by the year. A good collector base has always been very healthy for the hobby, with these new trends I kind of worry a little that the interest will drop of and investments take full hold. With a lack of interest a lack of knowledge may follow!?

Thanks Azda, I should have read through the posts, this one sure answers a lot. So on the whole are the days of the 'old fashioned' coin dealer gone? seems it could be to me, shame really. We seem to be relying on technological advances a bit too much, just wait till the lights go out!!!

If you do go to this years Coinex it's worth to bear in mind that on day 1 (Friday) the entry is £25 after 1pm with before (11am entry) being £50. But the Saturday is apparently free entry. Up till last year the Friday was free after 1pm if you held a complimentary ticket, so alas it seems to me the Friday has now been set aside for the investors comfort with the collectors held back to the Saturday. Hmmm shame really I used to like Coinex but I will not be attending anymore, cos after all I'm only a collector!!!!

Rob just out of interest I can see the signature 'DROZ' to the left in exergue but it looks like something is also under the date, looks like maybe another signature? just interested to know if this should be there?

That is my original point, how 'good' could they get. The die reproduction is a good point, just need to give the coin a good tone and "hey presto"

Also with the big advances in digital photography/scanning, do you think that maybe a coin in the hand will eventually not be needed to copy it? Just another worrying thought with 3D images on the horizon!

I'm not sure about the slabbing thing when it comes to hammered, or with any coin really as with what has previously been said "who is the person who slabs"? Experts?! I suppose I am hoping this is not the way forward, but as with art they are getting better!

He only sells through ebay 400, and with a coin like that you gotta think that he's a tight bar steward and not setting up a website. Wonder what his ebay fees are like lol Check out all the other listings he has. I've not bought from him, but noticed the listings before and always assumed it was a main London Dealer (even Spink or Mark Rasmussen) anonymously selling on ebay? I have bought from him in the past and was quite pleased. Although I was a little unsure at first as I thought he only dealt on-line until I noticed him at coinex lat year with his own table, so I would say a reputable coin dealer but not linked to the above mentioned. Anyway superb coin, maybe an offer of £1,500 might clich it!!!

I'm a late English hammered man myself but sometimes I am a little curious about the interest in some milled coins especially ones with a known rarity like this one. I can fully understand a desire to gain a rare coin in your chosen collecting field as I have been through this on numerous occasions with what I like, but what I find interesting with a milled coin like this is the seemingly high level of desire to own one, going by Spink's book guide price would suggest a coin of great rarity, but is it? Rayner suggested R2, what R2 is in known numbers I don't know but when comparing with other know rarities the price does seem a lot? All I can imagine is that there must be many more poeple interested in the milled series which in some way involves a coin like this. So does anyone know how many of these coins exist or maybe more important how many collectors interested in owning one? Just interested in your thoughts!

I am not a great believer in slabs of any kind and also not an expert by any means on what is a good slabbing company or a bad one, but I just want to add my recent experience with the NNC slabs. I too have seen a lot of these NNC`s sold by this one ebay seller and as a collector of Charles I Tower hammered it`s not very often you come across a slabbed Chas coins but recently there have been many sold on ebay (US) and as previously said by this one seller. Now I have to admit (with embarrassment) I recently purchased one. I have never purchased a slabbed coin before and thought it would be a novelty to put a low bid on this one particular item, I don`t know why? just boredom I suppose, but to my surprise (and later horrer) I was the winning bidder of the damn thing. It was cheep enough but be warned if you are tempted to buy one go by the photo and judge the condition yourself and please do not spend a lot by the given condition rate. Before I received the coin I did a bit of info serching on this slabbing `company` and what I found out was quite alarming. Apparently there are 4 main well established slabbing companies and a couple more of good stand out of about 20 odd in the US alone, but the most interesting thing was the reliabilty of the `others` with the mentioned NNC coming out as one of the worst if not THE worst. So I did not expect much with the arrival of this coin, and just as well because not only was the coin poorly judged but the slab was crap too! It was almost loose with just a blob or two of glue holding the whole thing together, I ran my finger nail around the gap and without any effort the slab came apart, also the the paper info card is just a bit of paper with what looks like a bar code but is in fact just some black ink doing nothing plus some numbers that probably mean nothing. Having said all that the coin was low grade but genuine and ok for what I paid and overall quite a comical lerning curve for me. But be careful if tempted as I think this guy is trying his luck and in the most part still getting away with it at the moment. I think this slabbing lark should be regulated more aspecially with the rising market.

As a collector of English hammered I like the idea of a coin purchase that comes with an old ticket, it sometimes gives the coin an added feeling of it being a genuine antique. I think that if a coin has passed through generations of collectors, especially a well known old collection, then the ticket in a way becomes part of that items history and therefore gives it a genuine 100% provenance. I have a number of old tickets from various collections but my favourite tickets has to be the ones from Herbert Lingford`s collection as his tickets were not only information filled but also wrote in a very attractive old style hand, although I once bought an Ex Lingford coin from a well known dealer and stated as such but it came with no ticket? I can only assume the ticket was discarded-SHAMEFUL But having said the above I think that coin tickets are a very old fashioned way of referance, I suppose it is the coin cabinet way of things and probably does not fit in with the future {slabbing for example} But I am a traditionalist so long live the coin ticket! By The Way- I too make my own tickets, I`ve got one of those card shape cutters that cut 25mm diameter discs cut from card with my intials on, a bit conceited I know, but good fun.

The £2 sideline is something I too have been doing for a number of years now, all started when I found the 1996 european cup coin in my change. I find the differing designs and themes quite interesting, I just put these coins aside everytime I find a new one in my change and I too like to keep the best. Just looked through the ones I had and noticed the commonwealth games one I kept has the Welsh flag, I never noticed that before with the 4 differing home flags on this coin, must try to find the English one now! Another thing to look out for is the edge legend on £2 coins, the legend should read the correct way up with the obverse of the coin upwards but some coins read with the reverse upwards {or upsidedown if you like} Not sure if this is a known error? or rare? just something I have noticed on a number of £2`s. I must get out more!!!!

Hi Mat, Yes this coin was in the Alan Barr pt IV - coin #537. 29.27g. Cooper die XV*/XXI* stated as an extremely rare overmark for a crown. With a provenance of Ex W.B.Thorpe {86} Ex Cooper {72} Ex Rodney-Smith and ex Selig {88} Hope this helps.

Hi Mat, This 1b Crown was in the Alan Barr part 3 coin #390 29.85g and with a provenance of; Ex Hall, Ex Larsen {144}, ex Cooper {53} and as said one of two known with this particular die pairing as the other one was in the Ryan collection in 1952. I can`t seem to find the other coin you mention in the Barr collection with the dies XV/XXXI? The die XV would be for the bell mark alone with the crown over bell being die XV* and crown being die XVI {all obverse dies} So the * denotes the overmark therefore your coin would be XV*/XXXI. Having said that, and going by Cooper`s findings, the reverse die XXXI is down as a parliment type used in the mark {P} and {R} If you want you can PM me with your email and I can maybe help more.

Hi Mat, Good luck with your ebay auction, seems a reasonalbe price for such a coin. But I thought I would point out that in the Alan Barr catalogue this coin is described as being Cooper dies VIII/X and being one of only two known with this die combo and with the condition noted as F, this would be Mark Rasmussen`s essesment and so sure to be correct, but the 1b type in it`s self has certainly more than just "5 known" With three mintmarks used for the 1b being lis,cross and castle with the usual overmarks too. Of the three coins in the Barr collection with this castle mark it suggests a total of 13 coins known and this as said with just the castle mark. Please don`t think I am having a go I just think if you are to sell such a coin with an excellent pedigree on ebay it`s worth getting it correct just so there are no comebacks. BTW this coin was also in the Cooper collection, I think worth noting.

Hi coin watch, So what if... you bought the guilt proof 1806 and 7 halfpennies warwick and warwick were selling last year, you didnt have time to go to the viewing days so you placed an internet bid and won them. When they arived they were just normal halfpennies which goldish paint on them (which is true I think some forum members can vouch for me on these). If warwick and warwick wont let you return them because its their policy: sold as seen or somthing like that, what are you going to do? just accept the loss? Call trading standards? It would be nice if there is a body you can turn to that has the legal power to make the desicions on behalf of both parties such as an obmudsman or an alternative dispute resolution. In this particular case its a clear cut case that trading standards would be able to step in as the Distance Selling regulations apply on the basis of a misdescription otherwise auctions are normally excluded, if you bid on the day in person there is only contract law and the sales of goods act which are not strict liability in auction situations and the only real option is to go to a small claims court.

I feel I have to commend all on this post, a brilliant and very relavent one. Well done to all above. My input is simple, I am a collector and allways have been since a child. As a child my interest in coins was fuelled by the only books available to me at that time and that was the Seaby`s guide in the school library, I remember looking through it and thinking I would just love to own one of "those" coins but even then I knew that all I could do was admire the photo, as even then as a 12 year old coin novice I was able to see that the prices were out of my pocket money range but I was able to make this resposable decision myself. So my point is that even as I child I recognised that the book in my hand was a guide and only that. I do not consider myself that well educated but I do like to consider myself able to make my own decisions. The hobby of coin collecting is just that a HOBBY and the reason that I am just as interested and more involved now in my 40`s than I have ever been before is the feeling it gives me of getting out of my every day life of rules and regulations which I find a constant drag. Over the years I have tought myself in my chosen coin field with many coin references and books on the subject and also I have asked knowledgeable heads just because I have a genuine interest in my collecting. I know the prices have gone up considerably year on year but this has much to do with investment, even though in my opinion I don`t think the prices are that way out of what they should be, but if regulation ever enters the coin world it would be to control investment and greed, and if this day should ever come {god forbid} then this is when I would turn my back on my hobby and sell up, and I think others would too. So please let the only thing in my life that is unregulated stay that way, and don`t underestimate the everyday coin collector - even the uneductaed one!

Oh-No Mr Hussulo, I so wish that you did not bring this to anyones attention, especially here in the UK. Just think about it, our good old friend Gordon Brown might be sitting at home right now reading this and thinking what a good idea this actually is {hhmm, yes, seize everyones collections and sell them on ebay, what a great idea and it might just save my neck and cover up this fine financial mess i`ve managed to create}. Thats it i`m leaving the country , thats after i`ve dropped of my collection to Downing st