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Everything posted by secret santa
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the 1953 pennies
secret santa replied to Mr T's topic in British Coin Related Discussions & Enquiries
Michael Gouby's letter on the subject (attached on an earlier post) defined my penny as BP1953R (in the absence of proof that they were the same variety) and said that they could be from the same dies (I think they probably are). Michael hasn't held both coins in his hand to say whether they are the same variety. The article in the NC (by M Brehm) was written long before I pointed out to Michael that I had found a penny with 122 beads. Michael then compared a photo of my coin with his coin (the ex-Brehm coin BP1953L from the article) and they appear to be similar with regard to the legend v bead configuration (i.e. which letter points to which bead). However, my coin does not appear to be a proof although it could be a slightly more worn version of his which is described as "probably from sand-blasted dies". So they could be one and the same variety although no-one has compared the 2 side by side. Spink NC article attached Spink NC BP1953L.jpg And yes, they should both be C*+a -
the 1953 pennies
secret santa replied to Mr T's topic in British Coin Related Discussions & Enquiries
Michael Gouby's letter on the subject (attached on an earlier post) defined my penny as BP1953R (in the absence of proof that they were the same variety) and said that they could be from the same dies (I think they probably are). Michael hasn't held both coins in his hand to say whether they are the same variety. The article in the NC (by M Brehm) was written long before I pointed out to Michael that I had found a penny with 122 beads. Michael then compared a photo of my coin with his coin (the ex-Brehm coin BP1953L from the article) and they appear to be similar with regard to the legend v bead configuration (i.e. which letter points to which bead). However, my coin does not appear to be a proof although it could be a slightly more worn version of his which is described as "probably from sand-blasted dies". So they could be one and the same variety although no-one has compared the 2 side by side. Spink NC article attached -
Dave I think the only answer is that CGS must grade a BP1868Ab F56 as a different coin from a bog standard F56. I must say that treating every date width listed by Gouby as a standalone variety is going too far in my opinion. R
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Great coins Jerry, and so much better than they looked in the catalogue or on the website !!!!
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the 1953 pennies
secret santa replied to Mr T's topic in British Coin Related Discussions & Enquiries
I now discover that I do have a photograph of BP1953L (which is the coin sold at Spink in Dec 2014) and it is the same die combination as my BP1953R (C*+ although I'm not convinced that mine is a matt proof. -
the 1953 pennies
secret santa replied to Mr T's topic in British Coin Related Discussions & Enquiries
My second attempt to list the various 1953 penny types: -
the 1953 pennies
secret santa replied to Mr T's topic in British Coin Related Discussions & Enquiries
I believe the table below accurately lists the various 1953 pennies: Date Gouby Freeman Description rarity die pair name die pair no. 1953 A+a BP1953K 1*+D F243A Toothed obverse & reverse R9 1953 B+a - 1+A - Beaded obverse/toothed reverse Mule - Not proof R9 1953 B+b BP1953A 1+B F245 Circulation issue N 1953 C+a BP1953L - - Matt proof sold in April 1985 R9 1953 C+b BP1953P 1+B F246 Bronze proof R5 1953 C+b - 1+B - Matt proof (for photographic purposes) R9 1953 B+a BP1953M 1+A F244 From the V.I.P.proof set (Mule) R9 1953 B+x BP1953N - - Circulation obverse; toothless reverse PU 1953 C*+b BP1953R - - Pattern obverse (122 beads)/toothed reverse Mule R9 The only coin I haven't seen pictured is the coin defined as BP1953L (Matt proof) sold in April 1985. The Proof coin in the VIP set is interesting because not only is it a mule with toothed reverse, it also has the obverse design used on circulation pennies (121 beads; A of ELIZABETH points to tooth) rather than that used in the standard proof sets (120 beads; A of ELIZABETH points to gap). The coin sold by Spink in Dec 2014 was BP1953R. Oh dear, I pasted a Word table in but it hasn't come out properly - I'll try again. Ignore the above -
the 1953 pennies
secret santa replied to Mr T's topic in British Coin Related Discussions & Enquiries
I believe the table below accurately lists the various 1953 pennies: Date Gouby Freeman Description rarity die pair name die pair no. 1953 A+a BP1953K 1*+D F243A Toothed obverse & reverse R9 1953 B+a - 1+A - Beaded obverse/toothed reverse Mule - Not proof R9 1953 B+b BP1953A 1+B F245 Circulation issue N 1953 C+a BP1953L - - Matt proof sold in April 1985 R9 1953 C+b BP1953P 1+B F246 Bronze proof R5 1953 C+b - 1+B - Matt proof (for photographic purposes) R9 1953 B+a BP1953M 1+A F244 From the V.I.P.proof set (Mule) R9 1953 B+x BP1953N - - Circulation obverse; toothless reverse PU 1953 C*+b BP1953R - - Pattern obverse (122 beads)/toothed reverse Mule R9 The only coin I haven't seen pictured is the coin defined as BP1953L (Matt proof) sold in April 1985. The Proof coin in the VIP set is interesting because not only is it a mule with toothed reverse, it also has the obverse design used on circulation pennies (121 beads; A of ELIZABETH points to tooth) rather than that used in the standard proof sets (120 beads; A of ELIZABETH points to gap). The coin sold by Spink in Dec 2014 was BP1953R. -
the 1953 pennies
secret santa replied to Mr T's topic in British Coin Related Discussions & Enquiries
]Thanks Chris, I'll reattach Michael's letter for those that are interested. -
the 1953 pennies
secret santa replied to Mr T's topic in British Coin Related Discussions & Enquiries
Sorry - there's no edit to click on - must be doing something wrong -
the 1953 pennies
secret santa replied to Mr T's topic in British Coin Related Discussions & Enquiries
Don't know where to go to even click on edit !!!!!!!!!!!!! -
the 1953 pennies
secret santa replied to Mr T's topic in British Coin Related Discussions & Enquiries
How ? Edit the post, look to the right of the attachment and there is a 'delete' button. Then just upload another. EDIT: You need 'use full editor' to do it. What is full editor ? -
the 1953 pennies
secret santa replied to Mr T's topic in British Coin Related Discussions & Enquiries
How ? -
the 1953 pennies
secret santa replied to Mr T's topic in British Coin Related Discussions & Enquiries
Fortunately I have moved since then - Phew -
the 1953 pennies
secret santa replied to Mr T's topic in British Coin Related Discussions & Enquiries
Thanks Matt I should have thought of that !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Too late now I guess. R -
the 1953 pennies
secret santa replied to Mr T's topic in British Coin Related Discussions & Enquiries
Gouby has not yet published it formally as C* but: When I bought my penny (with toothed reverse) at Croydon auctions in September 2000 I noticed that it had the 122 border beads, different from either the circulation or proof issues. I wrote to Michael Gouby to see if he had come across this variety as it wasn't mentioned in his book The British Bronze Penny 1860-1967. He checked his own stock and found that he had a similar coin that had featured in a Spink Numismatic Circular article in June 1986 (although he had not noticed that it was this "pattern" reverse with 122 beads. It was this coin that he sold to Trevor Legge whose coins were sold at Spink as mentioned above. After examination of his coin he agreed that it was an unrecorded die type and he said that he would be calling it C* when he next updated his book. However, that book has never been updated and so it has not been publicised, not even on his website. I will attach a copy of his reply to me confirming the C* classification. -
the 1953 pennies
secret santa replied to Mr T's topic in British Coin Related Discussions & Enquiries
Gouby has not yet published it formally as C* but: When I bought my penny (with toothed reverse) at Croydon auctions in September 2000 I noticed that it had the 122 border beads, different from either the circulation or proof issues. I wrote to Michael Gouby to see if he had come across this variety as it wasn't mentioned in his book The British Bronze Penny 1860-1967. He checked his own stock and found that he had a similar coin that had featured in a Spink Numismatic Circular article in June 1986 (although he had not noticed that it was this "pattern" reverse with 122 beads. It was this coin that he sold to Trevor Legge whose coins were sold at Spink as mentioned above. After examination of his coin he agreed that it was an unrecorded die type and he said that he would be calling it C* when he next updated his book. However, that book has never been updated and so it has not been publicised, not even on his website. I will attach a copy of his reply to me confirming the C* classification. -
the 1953 pennies
secret santa replied to Mr T's topic in British Coin Related Discussions & Enquiries
Do you have link to an image or listing? The search feature on the Spink site doesn't seem to work. Wait, never mind, see https://www.spink.com/files/catalogue/14007.pdf (p142). This seems to be BP 1953 L, not the seemingly more common F244. Here's the previous sale I was thinking of: http://www.londoncoins.co.uk/?page=Pastresults&auc=144&searchlot=386&searchtype=2 Some more discussion at http://www.predecimal.com/forum/topic/9390-1953-penny-mule-rob-bernie/ with what looks like allusions to the second ??? in my list. Here you go mate https://www.spink.com/lot-description.aspx?id=14007000929 - Damn at my bid of £ 2550 I thought I was going to win it Ah thanks - much better image. It really does look like a currency piece. That Spink coin is a very interesting piece - it's only the second recorded occurrence of a pattern obverse which Gouby now calls C* and has 122 border beads as opposed to the 121 on the currency coin of 1953 and 120 on the normal proof of 1953. I have a specimen which I sent to the Royal Mint for verification and they thought that it was an early strike, probably from 1952 which was never adopted. -
4054A 1926 Penny of highest rarity
secret santa replied to Chris Perkins's topic in British Coin Related Discussions & Enquiries
Nice work Matt -
4054A 1926 Penny of highest rarity
secret santa replied to Chris Perkins's topic in British Coin Related Discussions & Enquiries
184 it is - try this photo -
4054A 1926 Penny of highest rarity
secret santa replied to Chris Perkins's topic in British Coin Related Discussions & Enquiries
I've always made it 184 - the same as a 1927 - I guess I'll have to count them again................................................. -
1922. 27 reverse. egffy alignement : i have one to sell
secret santa replied to timbo's topic in Items For Sale
That sounds about right - I suppose everyone has been too interested in finding a Freeman 192A for so long and didn't give this any more than a second glance. Except that it has a reverse which looks as tho it's F192A and they're generally spotted very quickly. It does give hope to us all that there are further varieties still to be discovered...... -
It does seem to be in the right place but doesn't look substantial enough - but, given that the dot on the die will be incuse, maybe the hole filled up over time creating weaker specimens.
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Does anyone know who "Elstree" is ? It seems strange that he/she is selling some coins that were purchased quite recently (Last year in one case) unless something unfortunate has happened. Some lovely pennies.
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LCA March 2016
secret santa replied to secret santa's topic in British Coin Related Discussions & Enquiries
Are you sure you've been a good boy ?????