brg5658

Flowery language when the comments you are making are blatant lies isn't exactly what I'd call "telling it like it is"...but, there's no denying the fact that he sure does think highly of himself. He seems so smug and happy with himself while he tells the EU to go fuck themselves, all the while telling them that they need the UK more than it needs them. This guy is a textbook psychopath.

I thought American politicians were bad -- Nigel Farage is a pompous ass of the first degree. Absolutely amazing...

He certainly looks the part.

I'm aware of where he was born. Was there a meaningful point to your reply? Where his parents happened to be living when he came out of the womb is of little import here -- he's a British politician, period.

Wow, just wow. That's all I can say. I found the numbers posted by @TomGoodheart interesting (but not surprising). The old fogeys voting to Leave must realize they have now left a shit-storm-disaster for the younger generation. I don't see what this vote proved other than that lying politicians are willing to "spin" reality any which way they can to advance their self-serving ideals. Boris Johnson is the "Donald Trump" of the UK. I'm just hoping that we don't do something similar to this mess in the USA come November 8th. Now off to ebay.co.uk to look at coins for a 10% discount on yesterday...

@Paulus has a nice post elsewhere on these forums with some advice. I have offered my advice in that thread, so I will let you give it a look there. Handheld images are often / usually blurry, so supporting your iPhone on a stable and level surface is imperative. Best, Brandon

@azda, I don't collect hammered coinage, so I can't attest to this. I do know that a vast difference between the American grading system and the British system is that the Brits put a lot more emphasis on completeness of strike for assigning grades. American grading puts a lot more emphasis on the state of preservation of the metal surfaces, oft (at least up to MS63) irrespective of the quality of the actual craftsmanship in striking. A weakly struck but lustrous and truly uncirculated coin in the American grading system may very well get an MS63 TPG grade. In the British system it seems the weakness of strike is treated the same or similar to a coin well-struck but worn down via circulation, thus may receive a gVF grade or something similar. It's not an apples to apples comparison, or even a fair criticism given that the systems are simply completely different. I will say that most of the grades for milled coinage assigned by NGC are reasonable in the scheme of subjective grading, and the American obsession with micro-grading. I'm still personally a bit old school, and I tend to classify UNC coins in the American grading system as either: MS60 (unc, but with lots of abrasions due to bagging - usually unattractive), MS63 (unc with some small imperfections), MS65 (unc, as full strike as can be expected, and nearly no abrasions), or MS67 (basically perfect with but the smallest abrasion or 2). It is a bit humorous when a British collector tells me they think that a TPG got the grade wrong by 1 or 2 micro points in the MS range -- yet the Brits grade coins with very crude over-arching labels like EF, gEF, etc. Thus my point above with the two overlapping bell curves. I have seen coins graded by PCGS fluctuate 3-4 grade points in MS, whereas I believe NGC is more consistent in their assignment of MS grades (upon multiple submissions you will likely get very similar if not the same numerical grade). I'd prefer consistency over artificial supposed "conservative" grading. When I submit to NGC, an MS63 tells me something consistent about the coins state of preservation. If I were to submit to PCGS, an MS63 grade may just tell me the main graders were on vacation; or the graders had a bad night the night before...the point being, PCGS seems to like to assign grades that encourage resubmission (i.e., more fees), and I'm simply not going to play that silly game. I don't play the crack-out / resubmission games with TPGs. I utilize TPGs some for their opinions on grade, but largely (and almost solely) for their guarantee of authenticity an the protection the slab affords for preservation of the coin. There are many USA collectors who have similar opinions to me on the fluidity of assigned grades, and pay little attention to the micro-grading obsession of the American TPGs. Unfortunately, if you're only looking at discussions on the PCGS or NGC forum postings, you'll get a highly biased group of obsessive collectors who for some reason think there is "one right answer" for the grade of a coin -- which there is NOT!

It's not British, but I recently purchased this little Swiss copper 2 rappen. The surfaces are really lovely, and it has some great color.

If you think that's a VF shilling, I'll buy it off of you for VF money... The only way that coin is a VF grade is if the reverse is missing.

Your opinion is interesting @azda. I have collected NGC graded coins for well over 10 years, and have roughly 500 of their slabs in my collection now (and have owned many many more in my collecting life). If anything, my opinion is the exact opposite of yours...as is the opinion of many other collectors of world non-USA coins. PCGS' grading of coins may be slightly toward the lower end of grades (i.e., what people call "conservative"), but their consistency is horrible. NGC coins may on average grade one or 0.5 points higher than PCGS' grading, but upon resubmission NGC will almost always regrade a coin exactly as they did the first time (i.e., consistency). The issue was so common and oft-repeated by collectors, that about a year ago I created a figure (see below) to graphically explain what we were all talking about on another forum. So, PCGS may on average grade more conservatively (one point lower than NGC), but they also have a much wider spread of grades that any given coin may receive. The issue with this lack of consistency in grading at PCGS is that, by the time a higher-dollar coin comes to market, it's often been submitted multiple times and is clearly maxed out grade-wise. In summary, while NGC grades may be on average a little higher numerically than the same coin would get on average at PCGS, often coins in PCGS holders are maxed out at the top end of the distribution of possible grades -- thus ultimately over-graded. I know, it's a conundrum/paradox, but my experiences have certainly supported this idea.

Gosh, I guess this token below must be a VF grade, since when I sent it in NGC graded it MS63...

Below is one of my apparently "VF" grade coins in an NGC MS63 holder...

This is so blatantly false. Get a grip man. "MS grade would be more VF to us"...? Talk is cheap, let's see some actual evidence of your accusation. Show me one such example of a truly no-questions VF coin in an NGC MS-graded holder, I dare you. Most (i.e., almost all) lower-grade MS coins in NGC holders (MS60-MS63) would and do grade EF or gEF by British standards.

Yes, your coin is attractive. My point was more an over-arching statement that coins aren't fungible based on labels and assigned grades by TPGs. In general, to US collectors, coins with attractive obverse toning are considered more premium worthy. Also, you have to know how to interpret the images that Atlas uses -- they photograph coins at an angle to bring out color, to the detriment of showing luster. Alternatively, they just use the glamour shots from PCGS TrueViews. I won't quibble over which coin is more attractive, but I certainly know which coin I would rather have in my collection. It isn't always about the $300 vs. $100 for a coin like this. Remember the Vicky 1899 Sixpence in the Heritage Auction for which you so freely told me I paid too much? I really loved the coin, and I wanted it. So, it was either pay the price within reason in the Heritage Auction, or wait for some dealer like CRO or Atlas to buy it and mark it up by 200%. Sure, I could have had a so-so example for 1/3 what I paid, but I much prefer my coin. Given I am a type collector (not a date/series collector), I'd rather have a stellar out of this world example hold that spot in my set, than have whatever ho-hum example comes along at a "good deal" price. To each his/her own.

I have noticed they are running INA/Patina items at > $300, but I have also noticed they aren't selling any. Asking and selling prices are 2 very different things.

Well, if you're patient, and they have something that you like -- a great proportion of their inventory eventually ends up in Heritage Auctions. Of course, you have to hope that no one else buys it before then, or talks them down to a reasonable price. My purchases from Atlas are NOT large ones (never purchased an item that was listed for more than $600 on their site), but they have always treated me very well. I can't fault them for the model really. They pick superbly eye appealing pieces, provide good (or better) images, and are completely open to returns if you're unhappy. And, their model isn't unique among USA based coin dealers. CRO (Coin Rarities Online) and a host of other dealers do very well selling to US-based buyers, as they do the leg work in picking absolutely stellar eye appealing coins. The personal touch and quality are what people pay up for. I'm a small fish in their big pond -- I'm only in the market for probably the bottom 5% of their priced items and they treat me very well. I will buy from them again if they have something I fancy at a reasonable starting price.

Expensive coins, yes, they certainly are. But, I have purchased 3-4 items from Atlas in the past year. And, I have never paid their asking price, so they do budge from their posted prices. If you don't like the coin, you don't have to buy it. Pretty simple. I will say most all of their inventory has extremely high eye appeal -- which you can never buy at "retail". And, their customer service is superb. I'd be interested to see some of the supposed "comps" that @jaggy is referencing, because I have seen plenty of washed out gray 1816 sixpences, and I'd pay more for the MS64 they have on their site (posted pic below) than an MS65 pedestrian gray example.

I think part of the concerns (about colour of the metal) are unfounded. Circulated silver, when lit with overly diffuse light, shows up with an almost coppery tinge on points of wear or weak strike. I know next to nothing about this particular coin, but I know enough about photography to know that the pictures posted in the OP are not how the coin looks in hand. Short of any obvious die markers missing (which I don't see mentioned here), I think an in hand review of the coin by an expert would be the only way for you to get an honest answer to this question. It's a hassle, but returning the coin for review is better than the musings of keyboard warriors spouting off opinions (biased largely by their vitriolic hatred of NGC and PCGS) based on so-so pictures. Just my tuppence...

@Paulus, really wonderful pics of some really wonderful coins. That crown especially is drool worthy! Stunning!

@coinkat, if you put the tags around your links, you can display the photos here.

Here's mine:

@Paulus I am very sorry that I did not see this topic until just now. I have no idea how I missed it, but I only poke my head in every once in a while in the summer months, and I see it was posted in July. Nonetheless, I will post a bit below on my methods. Firstly, let me just say that your pictures have improved a great deal Paulus. You're capturing luster very well in your more recent images, and the focus is also much sharper. I feel a lot of people pay too much attention to the bells and whistles on fancy cameras or purchase really expensive lenses hoping that having the right (i.e., expensive) equipment will somehow make you a better photographer. For coin photography, the most important pieces are often the very inexpensive ones of the equation. Lighting is immensely important - I'd say the most important ingredient for taking good coin images. The type of light bulb (LED, incandescent, fluorescent) you use is less important, but understanding how to use that light source is key. For example, being able to set a custom white balance in your camera for your particular lights is key to getting realistic colors. The size of the light source (small bulb vs. large bulb) or the apparent size of the light source (e.g., a small light source diffused acts like a larger light source) is also important for fully lighting the coin's surface. The angle of the lights changes the appearance of the coin's surfaces a lot -- and your lights should always be placed above your mounted camera lens, if not even higher. With regard to lighting (in particularly angle), I wrote up a little article on the NGC forums some 3+ years ago, and I think it may be helpful. Keep your lights at a high angle to the surface on which the coin is placed, and diffuse them enough or use large enough light point surfaces to avoid hot spots on the coin. See my little schematic below of what my photography rig looks like. Second to lighting, I would say that mounting your camera on a solid copy stand or tripod is very important. Images taken with a hand held camera will be a bit "shaky" or lacking in detail. I have seen hand-held images of coins that get the message across, but the ability to zoom in and see details or inspect surfaces is very limited. Not only is mounting your camera on a sturdy surface important, but it is also important that your camera is aligned to the flat surface of the coin properly. By that I mean, the camera's detector (a small rectangular flat surface at the back of the lens where the image is focused) needs to be perfectly parallel with the coin's surface (i.e., in parallel planes). This is important for focusing reasons. The easiest way to make sure your camera is mounted parallel with the surface on which the coin is placed is to use a little mirror. Place the mirror where you would place the coin, and adjust your camera in the x, y, and z planes as needed until the center of your lens' reflection is perfectly centered in the camera's viewfinder. See the little schematic I created below. Lastly, practice, practice, and practice some more. I have now taken somewhere around 20,000 images of coins over the past 7 years. I have only been happy with my images for the past 4.5 years. It takes a while to get up to "happy" quality -- and I'm still improving my images and tweaking things today. I try to take at least some coin photos 2-3 days of every week. It just keeps me in the "zone". I hope some of these hints help a little. Best, Brandon

I have an EdVII example with the same reverse as your Vicky that I recently photographed.

You are completely correct. The original Hearn issues of 1954/55 were of much higher quality and much higher relief than the later 1980s Lobel issues. Below is my example of one of the original Hearn issues. There are also still some of these EdVIII pieces being minted today, I believe somewhere down in Australia. They are far inferior quality, with very flat relief. I have seen them in Silver, Nickel, and Brass, and I know there are a few sovereign size strikes floating around in gold. I don't have a copy of the Giordano book unfortunately. However, you may find this set of EdVIII issues to be helpful (a member of NGC has put these together over the years).

The 1910 dated Edward VII pieces are among the lowest mintages of the original 1999-2001 designs at 400 pieces.